Making Windows 8 work

mbpark · 12-30-2012, 08:58 PM

Hello,

I have some very positive (and some negative) things to report about Windows 8.

1. Classic Shell (classicshell.sourceforge.net) brings back the Start menu and works very well, even with Office 2013.

2. Windows 8 is fast. It is faster than 7 on the same hardware. They really made it run well this time.

3. Many of the wireless bugs in Windows 7 are fixed. This is the first Microsoft OS where I didn't have to utilize a third-party utility or 10-step configuration to configure wireless (we use WPA2-Enterprise with RADIUS and EAP-TLS authentication at work). Android, depending on the vendor and version, still has major issues. Mac OS X and and iOS work very well too.

4. By the time you put all the third-party utilities such as Chrome, Firefox, Pidgin, etc. on the OS, it really doesn't function any differently if you have Classic Shell.

5. Built-in AV. This helps for all of the millions of people who refuse to buy AV or install AVG, Avast!, or a similar product. It's not the best, but it's something.

Office 2013 has its own issues because they took a step back with the user interface, but Windows 8 in itself is actually a really good core OS with a bad UI.

To me, it's no different than having to reconfigure Ubuntu Linux to use LXDE or e17 instead of the Unity UI that they ship with by default on my Linux box at work.

If I want a tablet UI, I'll stick with an iPad. I already got to play with one of the Samsung tablets at work, and besides the wireless issues we had with it, was not impressed with Android as a tablet OS. Google and Samsung can't get Android working well in the enterprise yet.

I will admit it was better than the Motorola Xoom that crashed on a product demo for a department chair.

However, I will also admit that Microsoft really shot themselves in the foot with Windows RT, and may have taken off the leg. We use Windows CE as a wireless handheld OS all over the place (and so does almost every major health system in the USA, Target, and Wal-Mart). Apparently, Windows RT is the replacement for it, and was promised to start replacing it in the embedded market. Those tablets that have a mixup between the Classic and New UIs should make anyone from Microsoft embarrassed to have shipped something so half-baked. Apple should be sending them gifts for taking some of the heat off of their issues.

They have provided no real upgrade path from Windows CE, and no one from Microsoft can provide me a decent answer as to what is going on. I do have them stopping by in 2 weeks. Maybe they can give me an answer then.

Windows 8 is a really good desktop OS with a bad UI. It's fast, stable, and with a little tweaking, does what I need at work. The problems are that Office 2013 is a step back, Windows RT is a step back, the Surface is a step back, and the Windows RT/Phone 8/CE confusion is a step back.

If anything, Microsoft needs to be looking at new leadership that can provide a unified vision across their platforms that works, not islands of good in a sea of bad. The vision of trying to make everything Microsoft look like an iPad has not worked.

toranokaze · 12-30-2012, 11:30 PM

The two biggest grips I have seen are the start menu and the fact that it pushes out other OS, so only Windows boots

xoxoxoBruce · 01-02-2013, 10:53 AM

Mitch, I'm using 7 and happy with it, any compelling reasons to replace it with 8?

mbpark · 01-02-2013, 08:36 PM

Bruce,

Not unless you really need the touch features or have to deal with lots of wireless networks.

I don't normally recommend upgrading to a new OS unless there's a really compelling reason, like running Vista.

Otherwise, this Win8 laptop works fine. It originally ran XP, upgraded to 7, and now 8.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-04-2013, 08:03 AM

Thanks Mitch.

BigV · 01-04-2013, 11:11 AM

I'd like to have a computer running Windows 8 so that I can familiarize myself with it. My own computer usage needs are adequately served with existing hardware, so this would really be for learning/experimentation/keeping myself current technologically.

I'm looking for hardware recommendations. Should I look for a new system? or an existing/used laptop to be upgraded? I know you've said the tablet UI is second to Apple, but how important would you say it is to be familiar/fluent with that setup for life in the workforce? I have seen some very interesting hardware designs with tablet display / detachable dock/keyboard from some first rate vendors, Lenovo, HP, Dell, Samsung, Acer, etc. This is going to be a work tool, not something I will be depending on for my own critical stuffs. Any suggestions anyone? Thanks in advance.

classicman · 01-04-2013, 11:31 PM

Quote:

I'd like to have a computer running Windows 8 so that I can familiarize myself with it.

Come on over... you can try out ours. We have no idea what we're doing with it.
Literally found the search function in a sea of shit (walls full of tiles) by accident.
I search for what I want and get there that way. So far ... NOT HAPPY.

jimhelm · 01-04-2013, 11:54 PM

Yeah, I'm cool with 7. Only gripe if that it won't automatically connect to my wireless. But then I realized that the wireless adapter I installed has a utility that does, so I'm good to go.

Plus I don't like the win 8 color theme. Hot pink and purple? Bleh.

Undertoad · 01-05-2013, 02:37 PM

The only truly appropriate device for Win8 is a laptop with a touch screen. Pay about $800.

mbpark · 01-06-2013, 12:33 PM

UT,

It works really well on a standard desktop as well. Anything with a Core 2 Duo should run it fine. I did try it on an Atom, but went back to XP Pro on it due to better drivers for the GMA500 display adapter.

A touch screen laptop does work best, but a $200 PC works well too.

The wireless issues are mostly fixed in 8. It will even let you connect to wireless, without being logged in. That is a big issue in 7.

infinite monkey · 09-14-2013, 07:51 AM

I just got a laptop with Windows 8.

Geez how in the world do you make it stop deciding to go to different screens (ones that don't have any border around them, no command bars) when using the touchpad. Seems I move the slightest wrong way and all of a sudden BING weather takes over the screen, or some other screen that I don't even know is up, Nothing to indicate what programs are running? HOw do I shut then off? How do I know if the security is working? How do I know anything? Where is 'my computer'?

I'm way too tense to be dealing with this. I'm sure it costs to downgrade to 7.

Incredibly unhappy.

mbpark · 09-14-2013, 07:56 AM

Http://classicshell.sf.net

I use either this or Pokki (which Leovo ships) to turn off the new Start menu.

I also turn off mousepad gestures. The new mousepads, even if you run Win7, turn on gestures. You have to turn them off using the touchpad control panel.

That should help.

infinite monkey · 09-14-2013, 08:07 AM

You are a god.

I just installed this. I think I figured some of it out. It's sure easier! I got that stupid Bing stuff to quit appearing. Gawd I hate Bing.

Thanks so much. I was glad to find this thread and amazed you responded so promptly. I hope I get smarter from here but don't be surprised if I send out the bat signal from time to time. I don't always expect you to see it right away, though.

Clodfobble · 09-14-2013, 08:09 AM

Infi, whenever a program takes over the screen, the Escape button should get you back out of it. This will usually take you back to the "Metro" screen, with all those big tiles. One of those tiles should be your Desktop. I spend 100% of my time in desktop mode. I don't know about touchpad gestures, that must have been something I turned off in the beginning and forgot about because it sounds hideous.

infinite monkey · 09-14-2013, 08:20 AM

Yeah, I was having to do that a lot. But I would pull the cursor to the lower corner, get the start screen back, and go back to desktop. I find it very frustrating.

I think the touchpad gestures are supposed to act like your phone screen, but as has been noted I don't have a touchpad monitor so they're worthless.

Sigh. Yep, tech is passing me by. I used to think I was fairly savvy. Now I feel like some old lady yelling 'get off my lawn' at my computer.

12-30-2012, 08:58 PM	#1
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	Making Windows 8 work Hello, I have some very positive (and some negative) things to report about Windows 8. 1. Classic Shell (classicshell.sourceforge.net) brings back the Start menu and works very well, even with Office 2013. 2. Windows 8 is fast. It is faster than 7 on the same hardware. They really made it run well this time. 3. Many of the wireless bugs in Windows 7 are fixed. This is the first Microsoft OS where I didn't have to utilize a third-party utility or 10-step configuration to configure wireless (we use WPA2-Enterprise with RADIUS and EAP-TLS authentication at work). Android, depending on the vendor and version, still has major issues. Mac OS X and and iOS work very well too. 4. By the time you put all the third-party utilities such as Chrome, Firefox, Pidgin, etc. on the OS, it really doesn't function any differently if you have Classic Shell. 5. Built-in AV. This helps for all of the millions of people who refuse to buy AV or install AVG, Avast!, or a similar product. It's not the best, but it's something. Office 2013 has its own issues because they took a step back with the user interface, but Windows 8 in itself is actually a really good core OS with a bad UI. To me, it's no different than having to reconfigure Ubuntu Linux to use LXDE or e17 instead of the Unity UI that they ship with by default on my Linux box at work. If I want a tablet UI, I'll stick with an iPad. I already got to play with one of the Samsung tablets at work, and besides the wireless issues we had with it, was not impressed with Android as a tablet OS. Google and Samsung can't get Android working well in the enterprise yet. I will admit it was better than the Motorola Xoom that crashed on a product demo for a department chair. However, I will also admit that Microsoft really shot themselves in the foot with Windows RT, and may have taken off the leg. We use Windows CE as a wireless handheld OS all over the place (and so does almost every major health system in the USA, Target, and Wal-Mart). Apparently, Windows RT is the replacement for it, and was promised to start replacing it in the embedded market. Those tablets that have a mixup between the Classic and New UIs should make anyone from Microsoft embarrassed to have shipped something so half-baked. Apple should be sending them gifts for taking some of the heat off of their issues. They have provided no real upgrade path from Windows CE, and no one from Microsoft can provide me a decent answer as to what is going on. I do have them stopping by in 2 weeks. Maybe they can give me an answer then. Windows 8 is a really good desktop OS with a bad UI. It's fast, stable, and with a little tweaking, does what I need at work. The problems are that Office 2013 is a step back, Windows RT is a step back, the Surface is a step back, and the Windows RT/Phone 8/CE confusion is a step back. If anything, Microsoft needs to be looking at new leadership that can provide a unified vision across their platforms that works, not islands of good in a sea of bad. The vision of trying to make everything Microsoft look like an iPad has not worked.

12-30-2012, 11:30 PM	#2
toranokaze I'm still a jerk Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Little Mexico Posts: 1,817	The two biggest grips I have seen are the start menu and the fact that it pushes out other OS, so only Windows boots __________________ "Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible." - Frank Zappa It is the ignorance of ignorance that lead to the death of knowledge The Virgin Mary does not weep for her son, for he is in paradise. She weeps for the world , for we are in suffering.

01-02-2013, 10:53 AM	#3
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Mitch, I'm using 7 and happy with it, any compelling reasons to replace it with 8? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-02-2013, 08:36 PM	#4
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	Honestly, no Bruce, Not unless you really need the touch features or have to deal with lots of wireless networks. I don't normally recommend upgrading to a new OS unless there's a really compelling reason, like running Vista. Otherwise, this Win8 laptop works fine. It originally ran XP, upgraded to 7, and now 8.

01-04-2013, 08:03 AM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Thanks Mitch. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-04-2013, 11:11 AM	#6
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	I'd like to have a computer running Windows 8 so that I can familiarize myself with it. My own computer usage needs are adequately served with existing hardware, so this would really be for learning/experimentation/keeping myself current technologically. I'm looking for hardware recommendations. Should I look for a new system? or an existing/used laptop to be upgraded? I know you've said the tablet UI is second to Apple, but how important would you say it is to be familiar/fluent with that setup for life in the workforce? I have seen some very interesting hardware designs with tablet display / detachable dock/keyboard from some first rate vendors, Lenovo, HP, Dell, Samsung, Acer, etc. This is going to be a work tool, not something I will be depending on for my own critical stuffs. Any suggestions anyone? Thanks in advance. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

01-04-2013, 11:54 PM	#8
jimhelm a beautiful fool Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 39.939705 Posts: 4,504	Yeah, I'm cool with 7. Only gripe if that it won't automatically connect to my wireless. But then I realized that the wireless adapter I installed has a utility that does, so I'm good to go. Plus I don't like the win 8 color theme. Hot pink and purple? Bleh. __________________ There's a Shadow just behind me. Shrouding every step I take. Making every promise empty, pointing every finger at me. _tool

01-05-2013, 02:37 PM	#9
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	The only truly appropriate device for Win8 is a laptop with a touch screen. Pay about $800.

01-06-2013, 12:33 PM	#10
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	UT, It works really well on a standard desktop as well. Anything with a Core 2 Duo should run it fine. I did try it on an Atom, but went back to XP Pro on it due to better drivers for the GMA500 display adapter. A touch screen laptop does work best, but a $200 PC works well too. The wireless issues are mostly fixed in 8. It will even let you connect to wireless, without being logged in. That is a big issue in 7.

09-14-2013, 07:51 AM	#11
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	I just got a laptop with Windows 8. Geez how in the world do you make it stop deciding to go to different screens (ones that don't have any border around them, no command bars) when using the touchpad. Seems I move the slightest wrong way and all of a sudden BING weather takes over the screen, or some other screen that I don't even know is up, Nothing to indicate what programs are running? HOw do I shut then off? How do I know if the security is working? How do I know anything? Where is 'my computer'? I'm way too tense to be dealing with this. I'm sure it costs to downgrade to 7. Incredibly unhappy.

09-14-2013, 07:56 AM	#12
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	Classic Shell Http://classicshell.sf.net I use either this or Pokki (which Leovo ships) to turn off the new Start menu. I also turn off mousepad gestures. The new mousepads, even if you run Win7, turn on gestures. You have to turn them off using the touchpad control panel. That should help.

09-14-2013, 08:07 AM	#13
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	You are a god. I just installed this. I think I figured some of it out. It's sure easier! I got that stupid Bing stuff to quit appearing. Gawd I hate Bing. Thanks so much. I was glad to find this thread and amazed you responded so promptly. I hope I get smarter from here but don't be surprised if I send out the bat signal from time to time. I don't always expect you to see it right away, though.

09-14-2013, 08:09 AM	#14
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Infi, whenever a program takes over the screen, the Escape button should get you back out of it. This will usually take you back to the "Metro" screen, with all those big tiles. One of those tiles should be your Desktop. I spend 100% of my time in desktop mode. I don't know about touchpad gestures, that must have been something I turned off in the beginning and forgot about because it sounds hideous. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

09-14-2013, 08:20 AM	#15
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	Yeah, I was having to do that a lot. But I would pull the cursor to the lower corner, get the start screen back, and go back to desktop. I find it very frustrating. I think the touchpad gestures are supposed to act like your phone screen, but as has been noted I don't have a touchpad monitor so they're worthless. Sigh. Yep, tech is passing me by. I used to think I was fairly savvy. Now I feel like some old lady yelling 'get off my lawn' at my computer.

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