Animal Farm

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by glatt

I tell my kids that the bottom line is to give the teacher the answer they are looking for.

You can discuss things and argue your point, but if the teacher insists they want X before they will give you a good grade, then give them X. Don't give them Y.

I'm with glatt. I think one of the most important life-lessons to learn is that your boss is still your boss. Or they're the police and you're not. Or it doesn't matter if you had the right-of-way, you're still dead.

Let Aden make his case for it coherently and calmly, but in the end, if the teacher holds his ground, I'd say just give the guy what he wants and move on with life. It's not worth damaging your grades over a moron like this.

[ZenGum]

"Although some people take Animal Farm as a satire, it can also be plausibly interpreted as an allegory.".


School should be teaching him how to think, not teaching him what to think. Especially English.

[HungLikeJesus]

I think the purpose of going to school is to learn, not to get good grades.

[Griff]

You're not from around here are you?

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

I think the purpose of going to school is to learn, not to get good grades.

I see your thesis and raise you that I think that helping your fellow students learn, if you grasp a concept faster, is also an integral purpose of group schooling.

If I feel like I get what the teacher is saying, but that the teacher is having trouble framing the point in a way that the rest of the class quickly grasps, I have a tendency to shout out slangy or colloquial rephrasings of what I understand the teacher's point to be. It helps ME confirm that I understand the broad strokes of the teacher's point, and hopefully, it also helps the rest of the class, or at least those in the class that I (at risk of sounding immodest) that are slower to grasp the point than I am, to understand the broad and oversimplified point. I try to frame my rephrasing as a question, but I do admittedly have (as I'm sure people on the Cellar have noticed) a tendency to posit points I don't intend as absolute and factual but rather subjective and variable as factual for argumentative or clarificatory purposes. That is to say, sometimes I say stuff I know is arguable and subjective like it's factual and absolute, for purposes of locking in the opposite side to a point I understand.

This can come across, in class, as either curious or flat-out disrespectful. I've had my share of teachers who held either view of my disruptiveness. It's definitely different as a college student than a high school student - so far, all of the college or community-college courses I've taken have been taught by teachers who have a far less authoritarian view of teaching than any of the high-school teachers I've had - but I also had a private-school (high-school) education at Taipei American School that is probably noticeably if not wildly different than public schooling in any country. I know I'm not the only cellarite pursuing a degree, but if I'm not mistaken I'm the only cellarite who's recently graduated high school and then directly entered the college program I'm currently pursuing. and in the programs I've been in, in high-school and college, the vast majority of courses I've taken have been taught by teachers who were active and participatory to the point that they've been ready to debate or clarify their statements in front of the class as a whole when challenged on technical/factual points in their statements. They either clarify what they really meant in the oversimplified shorter point they made, or they defend the point they made as being correct even when I believe it to be inaccurate or incomplete. Either way I feel that I and my classmates benefit from the more in-depth point, even if I elicit the clarification at risk of seeming like a contrarian asshole that no teacher wants to have. Maybe it's elitist and unfair of me, as a private-high-school student, to expect all teachers to be open to debate and disagreement... But I think the idea that a teacher, a person whose express job and mission is to educate, should also be considered (on ACADEMIC, not BEHAVIORAL issues) an unimpeachable, don't-argue-just-go-with-the-flow figure, is flat-out dangerous to the idea of learning. If a point can't be explained or logically defended, no matter how many generations of teachers have stated it as fact, it shouldn't be taught in a class, and if it is, it's the DUTY of every thinking, analyzing, actively-participating student to challenge it.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

I think the purpose of going to school is to learn, not to get good grades.

That's naive.

I'm sorry, but it is. The American high school system is not set up for learning. If you want to learn--and you certainly should--then read a book. Seek out people who are experts in what you want to know. But for God's sake, don't go to a public high school.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

I also had a 7th grade science teacher who told us when we chewed our fingernails they all ended up in our appendix.

Oh my golly goodness. Does this mean that I do not have a stomach full of undigested chewing gum, nor will the watermelon seed take root?

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

That's naive.

I'm sorry, but it is. The American high school system is not set up for learning. If you want to learn--and you certainly should--then read a book. Seek out people who are experts in what you want to know. But for God's sake, don't go to a public high school.

I don't quite get your meaning. I learned a lot in public school.

Or have things changed that much in the last few years?

Though I have completely forgotten how to make a pipe out of a piece of tinfoil.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Though I have completely forgotten how to make a pipe out of a piece of tinfoil.

Don't worry its like riding a bike in an emergency situation it will come back to you like CPR. I bet there's an app for that but you could wiki.

[Aliantha]

Well, I think it is important to give the teacher what they want, but it's also important to learn to think.

Some would say that the best thing is to just do it the teachers way and just take the other knowledge under advisement to yourself (so to speak), but I honestly believe that the sooner kids learn to state their case and back it up with solid evidence, the better their learning outcomes are likely to be. Of course they must also learn to listen and understand another point of view.

It's all part of learning, and I don't think there's as much to benefit if you only have one without the other.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

That's naive.

I'm sorry, but it is. The American high school system is not set up for learning. If you want to learn--and you certainly should--then read a book. Seek out people who are experts in what you want to know. But for God's sake, don't go to a public high school.

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

I don't quite get your meaning. I learned a lot in public school.

Or have things changed that much in the last few years?

Though I have completely forgotten how to make a pipe out of a piece of tinfoil.

Things have changed a lot. Standardized testing out the wazoo and funding based thereon saw to that. But I disagree with Clodfobble. They are totally set up for learning. Rote learning to pass standardized tests. Not to help people acquire the skill of learning independently. Unless you are lucky like us and have an alternative public school option.

[monster]

NO teacher with that attitude would last 5 minutes in our school. But when Hebe moved to regular high school, one teacher warned her (as a friend) that she should "choose her moments" when correcting teachers

[Aliantha]

Yes well, doing it at an appropriate time is ideal. Also doing it respectfully is important. The teacher is not going to make life easy for someone who makes them look like an idiot (and even if they are one, it's beside the point).

[wolf]

the length of one kilometer was greater than that of one mile

That is extremely sad, but in the context of a thread about George Orwell, funny as hell. 2+2=5, anyone?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

That's naive.

I'm sorry, but it is. The American high school system is not set up for learning. If you want to learn--and you certainly should--then read a book. Seek out people who are experts in what you want to know. But for God's sake, don't go to a public high school.

My kids' elementary school's stated goal was to teach the kids how to learn and think. They were not about rote learning - that's what catholic school is for.