9 years and 4500 Dead Americans

[Undertoad]

tw, what are the strategic objectives and exit strategy in Afghanistan?

[SamIam]

Do we have even have an exit strategy in Afghanistan? We got rid of Bin Laden - finally! Lets get out of Afghanistan, too, already.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by SamIam

Do we have even have an exit strategy in Afghanistan? We got rid of Bin Laden - finally! Lets get out of Afghanistan, too, already.

Personally, I just can't get tired of obliterating tyrannies, and can't understand or appreciate those who do.

I've seen what less-than-democracies behave like. It's enough to make you clean and re-clean your assault rifle and hone your bayonet most of the afternoon, I'm tellin' ya.

The worthwhile "exit strategy" is spelled W-I-N. Regardless of resistance, uncaring of time. Make that which is less-than-democracy or pretends-to-democracy extinct. Your world will improve.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Personally, I just can't get tired of obliterating tyrannies, and can't understand or appreciate those who do.

I've seen what less-than-democracies behave like. It's enough to make you clean and re-clean your assault rifle and hone your bayonet most of the afternoon, I'm tellin' ya.

The worthwhile "exit strategy" is spelled W-I-N. Regardless of resistance, uncaring of time. Make that which is less-than-democracy or pretends-to-democracy extinct. Your world will improve.

I've also seen first hand the darker actions actions taken by "less-than-democracies." I sincerely hope that people of all nations gain their freedom - whatever THEY may define that freedom to be.

However, the US has plenty of problems at home to resolve before it goes frisking off to baby sit others. No one freed us from colonial rule but ourselves. We appreciate our liberty the more because of that. Let others do the same.

Besides, if US foreign policy is actually to go forth and demolish non-democracies, shouldn't we be going after the greatest remaining communist regime of them all - red China? But, no, far from it. US corporations can't outsource US jobs to China fast enough. Plus, we count on China to continue to take our worthless paper dollars to pay our debt, else the entire house of cards would collapse.

Far from attempting to make the Chinese communist regime extinct, the US is salivating for their co-operation. Don't give me that crap about Afghanistan; our actions there and in Iraq only show up the obvious hypocrisy inherent in US foreign policy.

[Beest]

Originally Posted by SamIam

No one freed us from colonial rule but ourselves. We appreciate our liberty the more because of that. Let others do the same.
.

I'm not great student of American history but, I understand there was a significant contribution by a foreign military power in the Revolutionary War. I don't know if it's considered that the colonists would have succeeded without French assisstance.

[SamIam]

Well, sure, the French were helpful for reasons of their own. But their contribution bares no comparison with US involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc., etc., ad nauseum. France did NOT turn up with a big army and land in the colonies to inform them that they were going to have a revolution now because France thought it was a cool idea. Colonial America decided on its own to break with the British. This is what I was trying to get at.

Also, I have read that the 13 colonies would have gained their freedom with or without France. French participation simply meant that the war ended sooner than it might have otherwise done. I don't know what the consensus of the historians is, though.

[Lamplighter]

What about the Indians ?

Think of the Indians

[tw]

Originally Posted by Beest

I'm not great student of American history but, I understand there was a significant contribution by a foreign military power in the Revolutionary War.

The British could not apply sufficient force in the colonies. The Brits had too many other ongoing wars.

Foreign powers provided two significant contributions. First was military training - a serious problem in the colonial army at both the enlistedman and officer levels. Second was a naval blockade during Yorktown. Without supplies and support from their Navy, then Cornwallis was cut off and forced to surrender to Washington. He could not obtain supplies sufficient to survive a siege.

As with all wars, purpose is to take negotiations to a peace table. That battle itself was only decisive because the British realized they needed their forces elsewhere. Suddenly realized war in the Colonies was not worth the expense. A victory in Yorktown, by itself, did not end the war. But was a deciding factor that caused top British management to negotiate rather than keep fighting.

Had the Brits not been involved in war elsewhere, then the battle in Yorktown probably would not have been the final battle.

British had another problem. Their attitude (similar to what American troops did in Vietnam and Mission Accomplished) had turned most colonials against them. Their military tactics were only creating more enemies.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

tw, what are the strategic objectives and exit strategy in Afghanistan?

The strategic objective was the elimination of bin Laden and those who protect Al Qaeda. The exit strategy involved phase four planning that had to be accomplished within a year after hostilities ended. But wacko extremist blindly follow their political agenda - America does not do nation building. No phase four planning was possible due to a wacko extremist political agenda. Everyone heard the wackos subvert the exit strategy. "America does not do nation building." Any better educated American saw the disaster in that sound byte. The least educated blindly repeated it as something good.

Having surrendered to the Taliban in 2002, a strategic objective is no longer viable. We got bin Laden. We probably can no longer take out those who protected him due to that 2002 surrender. So we have a real problem in Afghanistan.

What is worse, a defeat will not be known until after we leave. Because the strategic objective was so subverted back in 2002. Unsolvable problems created by wacko extremists in 2002 are now apparent in the attitude of every Afghanistani. Now made even worse because Afghanistan is considered by so many Pakistani power brokers as to be an enemy. Even every ally adjacent to Afghanistan turned against us or remained reluctant (well paid) friends during the George Jr administration due an obvious problem. 99% of all problems directly traceable to their intelligence. A legacy we must now live with.

So many who were once our allies and friends have little trust of Americans. George Jr destroyed America's relations with virtually every nation in the world. Just fixing this damage has kept Hilary Clinton extremely busy. More reasons why the strategic objective may be impossible. A viable exit strategy - too late for that. Just more in a long list of legacies created by people who think just like UG. Where big dic thinking and excessive military power can solve everything. Right. As if nobody bothered to learn from - Deja vue Nam.

All attempts to achieve a strategic objective were subverted by George Jr. He even disbanded Alec Station in 2005. A group created by Clinton in 1996 to only do one thing - get bin Laden. Anything by Clinton was evil, said wacko extremists. Besides, a strategic objective in Afghanistan was contrary to the George Jr administration political agenda. George Jr needed that bogeyman alive. So George Jr did what was necessary to subvert the strategic objective.

We suffer consequences of that subverted agenda. Complicated by generals who would fight forever rather than admit George Jr made the objective virtually impossible to achieve. We will never really know until after we leave. Because of the American surrender in 2002, the Taliban have better cards to play.

How many $billions are paid annually to corrupt governments because we are stuck in a quagmire? If we don't pay big bucks for the friendship of adjacent nations, then we have an army stuck in Afghanistan like the Nazis in Stalingrad. Appreciate this mess we inherited because George Jr so harmed our relations even with countries north of Afghanistan. And a military unwilling to admit the strategic objective may no longer be viable.

Due to the 2002 surrender, our every option in Afghanistan is a bad one. Another example of how American soldiers get massacred when the people forget to get educated - and listen to Limbaugh, et al.