I call Jupiter!

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Sam, check over the theory that in Africa famines only occur through some human intervention, perhaps well intentioned but as often malicious, and would not occur absent these interventions. There are those students of famines who figure this is why there are famines in the first place. Once a drought happens. The problem really springs from resource misallocations (viz. & e.g., corruption, thievery and so forth) during times of relative plenty in these pocket-handkerchief economies.

The United States, for an example of clearly doing something differently, has droughts and crop failures all the time. Localized. You don't see American skeletons shuffling down the Interstates as refugees trying to get away. You've never seen it in American history, period. Might have something to do with doing capitalism and free markets and other much-abused notions.

Over 12 million Americans died of starvation during the dust bowl/ Great Depression. As others here have stated, your understanding of American History (among other things) leaves something to be desired.

Also, you are misrepresenting what I posted. I never said that famines occur because of "human intervention". I believe that was UT's thesis, not mine.

Certainly, famine in Africa is a complex subject with many over-lapping factors. Human over population and climate change are important triggers to famine. And you really can't compare the US to Africa in that regard. The population density in Africa is much greater than it is here for one thing.

Unlike the US population, the population of Africa still tends to make a living from farming (or tries to). African farms tend to be extremely small and over-grazed, as well as over farmed. Too many grazing animals strip large areas of land of its vegetation, making it susceptible to wind erosion and flooding. The nutrients that each crop takes from the soil are not replaced due to lack of fertilizers and the inability to allow fields to lie fallow once a harvest has come in. I could write a book on this, but there are already ones out there far better written than anything I might attempt. Jared Diamond's "Collapse" is an excellent introduction to the subject.

Frankly, I am amazed that both you and UT are both touting the intervention of government. Roosevelt helped rise the US out of the Great Depression by increasing taxes on the wealthy, creating far reaching new social programs - like social security, and instituting the great public works projects of the time like the Hoover Dam.

In our current political atmosphere, Conservatives would rather roast in hell for eternity before raising taxes on the wealthy by so much as a penny. The Right wants to curtail or end as many social programs as possible and actually advocate leaving the less fortunate to die from hunger on the streets of our cities.

Far from rescuing us from any potential environmental disaster, conservatives would call upon social Darwinism to take care of the problem. Admit it guys. You can't have it both ways.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by SamIam

Roosevelt helped rise the US out of the Great Depression by increasing taxes on the wealthy, creating far reaching new social programs - like social security, and instituting the great public works projects of the time like the Hoover Damn.

But in the end it was World War II that tipped the balance in lifting America out of depression.
No disrespect to FDR - he is one of my politcal heroes.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Sundae

But in the end it was World War II that tipped the balance in lifting America out of depression.
No disrespect to FDR - he is one of my politcal heroes.

Ummmm...maybe for business profits,
but "tipped" may not be the best word
regarding unemployment.

US Depression: 1929
US Elected FDR: 1933
US entered WW II: 1944

US Unemployment Rate: 1932 - 23.6% (12.8 million unemployed)
US Unemployment Rate: 1938 - 19.1%
US Unemployment Rate: 1940 - 14.6%

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Ummmm...maybe for business profits,
but "tipped" may not be the best word
regarding unemployment.

US entered WW II: 1944

1944?

[Lamplighter]

Ooooops... give or take 3 years.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by SamIam

And you really can't compare the US to Africa in that regard. The population density in Africa is much greater than it is here for one thing.

Africa pop. density: = 65 people per square mile
USA pop. density = 76 people per square mile

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Africa pop. density: = 65 people per square mile
USA pop. density = 76 people per square mile

My bad. I stated "you really can't compare the US to Africa" and then proceeded to do so. Africa is a continent. The USA, of course is a country.

Population densities of some COUNTRIES in Africa:

Rwanda 984/sq mile
Burundi 772/sq mile
Nigeria 433/ sq mile