Nov 2nd, 2011 Deer Snack - Page 2

Lamplighter · 11-02-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

Invasive, sure. I'll buy that. But what serious troubles are they causing?

I can't speak with authority, but I had heard before there were issues
with the snakes and alligators (threatened or endangered species ?),
and the very large number of these snakes there now.

wolf · 11-02-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

They sdfd the "pets" of people who turned them loose when they got too big for the owners.
Apparently they are well adapted to the Everglades and are multiplying.

It's only fair ... The New York Sewer System has taken in all those (formerly cute baby) alligators, and sends down Burmese Pythons in return.

Aliantha · 11-02-2011, 06:57 PM

Any new species introduced to an environment is going to have an effect on the existing environment and the perception by humans is usually going to be that it's a negative impact because it's going to change what we see as how that particular environment should be.

So, then it comes down to what the actual impacts are. Is the new species reducing or obliterating the original inhabitants of the environment and are those inhabitants themselves native to the area?

I'm no expert, but I'd say that if a python that size is living there and multiplying, it's going to change the environment. The question is whether it's going to be change for the good or bad.

I'd imagine they'd eat quite a lot of birds eggs, and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the everglades considered famous in part because they're a nesting ground for so many species of birds?

glatt · 11-02-2011, 07:18 PM

I'm no expert on the Everglades, but I seem to remember that big cats of some type or other used to live there a century or two ago. They don't anymore. So there is already a predator vacuum. Why not replace one predator with another? Maybe they can even take care of those nutria rat things that are breeding all over the place.

It just seems like the standard "eek it's a snake" reaction could be subdued a little if it's not a suburban enclave. This is the wild.

Lamplighter · 11-02-2011, 08:35 PM

We are such a polarized country now, it seems the only way for things
to happen is to be based in existing law... no new environmental laws get passed.

In the Pacific Northwest, the Endangered Species Act is the foremost environmental law.
On top of that there are the tribal / treaty laws involving Native Americans.
Most everyone has heard of the tribulations of the salmon and the spotted owl.

But pity the state and federal agencies that have to deal with this tangled mess.
About the only thing that these folk are in agreement on now,
is the "hold your ground"... don't lose what we have now.
AND the removal and/or eradication of invasive species.

For OR and WA, this includes plants as well as animals and birds,
water-born plants and snails and frogs and feral hogs and feral cats,
and gray squirrels and English ivy and Scotch broom and ...

Everything else is political... commercial fishing, sport fishing, hunting,
off-road sports, winter sports, tourism, and on and on.
The winners are usually the ones with the most $ to spend.

I, personally, haven't heard a lot about all this in the midwest or east.
I assume every state or region has it's own issues,
and for Florida it seems to be the pythons.

ZenGum · 11-03-2011, 01:37 AM

How the hell does a python catch a deer, anyway?

Deer are fast, flighty critturs that bolt at the first sign of danger. I know that the python - once it has something in its grip - can squish the life out of pretty much anything. But how does it manage that first step of wrapping around the deer?

If I knew this I would probably have nightmares about it.

ZenGum · 11-03-2011, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

How the heck did you do that? You posted a response to my post BEFORE I posted it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

Wait a minute. How DID he do that?

I guess that's why he's the doctor!

Time zone Lord!

SPUCK · 11-03-2011, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

How the hell does a python catch a deer, anyway?

Deer are fast, flighty critturs that bolt at the first sign of danger. I know that the python - once it has something in its grip - can squish the life out of pretty much anything. But how does it manage that first step of wrapping around the deer?

If I knew this I would probably have nightmares about it.

Deer are about as smart as a door knob. They lay down during the day and just sit there. A python can smell them from a long ways away and vector in on them ever s o s l o o o o o w l y.

Look at rats and mice! They're totally amped out nervous ninnies but are the staple food for most smaller snakes.

Griff · 11-03-2011, 05:41 AM

I think the initial report said the deer died of something else and then the snake ate it.

ZenGum · 11-03-2011, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUCK

Deer are about as smart as a door knob. They lay down during the day and just sit there. A python can smell them from a long ways away and vector in on them ever s o s l o o o o o w l y.

Look at rats and mice! They're totally amped out nervous ninnies but are the staple food for most smaller snakes.

Yeah, but somehow the snake has to go from sneaking up to "gotchya". It's the moment where the snake gets enough loops around the deer to hold it that I'm having trouble imagining.

Well, it obviously happens. There's that African Rock Python picture, IIRC that thing had a Thompson's gazelle in it.

Smaller snakes have poison. That I understand. Sneak up, strike, wait a few moments.

Aliantha · 11-03-2011, 06:51 AM

I don't think the deer would get very far with a snake mouth around it's head. It'd have no eye deer where it was going for starters.

I crack me up! lol

Clodfobble · 11-03-2011, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Yeah, but somehow the snake has to go from sneaking up to "gotchya". It's the moment where the snake gets enough loops around the deer to hold it that I'm having trouble imagining.

Well, it obviously happens. There's that African Rock Python picture, IIRC that thing had a Thompson's gazelle in it.

Smaller snakes have poison. That I understand. Sneak up, strike, wait a few moments.

We've had several smaller pythons as pets in years past. (The smaller pythons still have no venom.) They can move very fast. Skip the first 15 seconds:

The really big ones will often hide in trees and strike downward when the prey walks underneath.

BigV · 11-03-2011, 02:49 PM

Quote:

(The smaller pythons still have no venom.)

NO pythons have venom; their size is irrelevant.

wolf · 11-03-2011, 03:06 PM

Anybody else surprised by noticing that the mouse neither pees nor shits itself? I know I would under similar circumstances ...

SPUCK · 11-04-2011, 05:06 AM

Mice and rats often have the crap squeezed out of them during the process. About 40% of the time.

Constrictors can very quietly gather themselves into striking loops. Their reach is about 1/3 their body length and there is nothing much that can dodge a correctly aimed strike.

The eminent herpetologist Raymond Ditmars used to demonstrate this fact by feeding mongooses to his pythons. Apparently the snakes never got the, "mongooses are really fast", memo because they always chowed down on them.

The 350 re-curved teeth help a lot too. The one that bit me had a hard time un-biting me. He left 4 teeth stuck in me too.

11-02-2011, 06:57 PM	#18
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Any new species introduced to an environment is going to have an effect on the existing environment and the perception by humans is usually going to be that it's a negative impact because it's going to change what we see as how that particular environment should be. So, then it comes down to what the actual impacts are. Is the new species reducing or obliterating the original inhabitants of the environment and are those inhabitants themselves native to the area? I'm no expert, but I'd say that if a python that size is living there and multiplying, it's going to change the environment. The question is whether it's going to be change for the good or bad. I'd imagine they'd eat quite a lot of birds eggs, and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the everglades considered famous in part because they're a nesting ground for so many species of birds? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-03-2011, 01:37 AM	#21
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	How the hell does a python catch a deer, anyway? Deer are fast, flighty critturs that bolt at the first sign of danger. I know that the python - once it has something in its grip - can squish the life out of pretty much anything. But how does it manage that first step of wrapping around the deer? If I knew this I would probably have nightmares about it. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

11-03-2011, 05:41 AM	#24
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I think the initial report said the deer died of something else and then the snake ate it. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

11-03-2011, 06:51 AM	#26
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I don't think the deer would get very far with a snake mouth around it's head. It'd have no eye deer where it was going for starters. I crack me up! lol __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-03-2011, 03:06 PM	#29
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Anybody else surprised by noticing that the mouse neither pees nor shits itself? I know I would under similar circumstances ... __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

11-02-2011, 07:18 PM	#19
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I'm no expert on the Everglades, but I seem to remember that big cats of some type or other used to live there a century or two ago. They don't anymore. So there is already a predator vacuum. Why not replace one predator with another? Maybe they can even take care of those nutria rat things that are breeding all over the place. It just seems like the standard "eek it's a snake" reaction could be subdued a little if it's not a suburban enclave. This is the wild.

11-02-2011, 08:35 PM	#20
Lamplighter Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods Posts: 6,402	We are such a polarized country now, it seems the only way for things to happen is to be based in existing law... no new environmental laws get passed. In the Pacific Northwest, the Endangered Species Act is the foremost environmental law. On top of that there are the tribal / treaty laws involving Native Americans. Most everyone has heard of the tribulations of the salmon and the spotted owl. But pity the state and federal agencies that have to deal with this tangled mess. About the only thing that these folk are in agreement on now, is the "hold your ground"... don't lose what we have now. AND the removal and/or eradication of invasive species. For OR and WA, this includes plants as well as animals and birds, water-born plants and snails and frogs and feral hogs and feral cats, and gray squirrels and English ivy and Scotch broom and ... Everything else is political... commercial fishing, sport fishing, hunting, off-road sports, winter sports, tourism, and on and on. The winners are usually the ones with the most $ to spend. I, personally, haven't heard a lot about all this in the midwest or east. I assume every state or region has it's own issues, and for Florida it seems to be the pythons.

11-04-2011, 05:06 AM	#30
SPUCK Professor Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,911	Mice and rats often have the crap squeezed out of them during the process. About 40% of the time. Constrictors can very quietly gather themselves into striking loops. Their reach is about 1/3 their body length and there is nothing much that can dodge a correctly aimed strike. The eminent herpetologist Raymond Ditmars used to demonstrate this fact by feeding mongooses to his pythons. Apparently the snakes never got the, "mongooses are really fast", memo because they always chowed down on them. The 350 re-curved teeth help a lot too. The one that bit me had a hard time un-biting me. He left 4 teeth stuck in me too.

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