Obama: "I'm ready to negotiate with you, Iran." Iran: "Fuck you."

[ZenGum]

And here is where I think a lot of Americans are making a very bad assessment of the relative importance of things.

Assume the goal is to ensure the life, liberty and (opportunity to pursue) happiness of the US people.

Terrorists have killed ... ten thousand, in total, ever? How many have cigarettes killed? Car crashes?

Meanwhile, multinational corporations have effectively bought control of your government and are manipulating it for their own benefit. They send you to war, pillage your treasury. Your government now routinely spies on you and strip-searches you, and are taking more and more steps towards detention without trial, torture and killing.

I don't know about you guys, but I am FAR more scared of the trend toward corruption of the US government than I ever have been of any terrorist organisation.

Oh I actually came in to say, man, those Iranians are a bunch of dickheads. That is the sort of thing that happens when a group of religious fundamentalists get control of a government.

[Griff]

Our economic situation is a much greater threat to the life, liberty, and property of most Americans than terrorists in Yemen or nutters in tar baby of the day Uganda. Is Presidential power too heady for restraint? After a while it just seems hard to say no.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

And here is where I think a lot of Americans are making a very bad assessment of the relative importance of things.

Assume the goal is to ensure the life, liberty and (opportunity to pursue) happiness of the US people.

Well, it is, but understand that it is only about "the US people". The rest can fend for themselves.

Terrorists have killed ... ten thousand, in total, ever? How many have cigarettes killed? Car crashes?

Less than most all other countries. Ciggarette smoking has significantly been reduced in the US; Our car crash requirements are among the highest in the world. So yea, as long as we are free to manipulate statistics, we are doing quite well compared to other countries.

Meanwhile, multinational corporations have effectively bought control of your government and are manipulating it for their own benefit.

Democracy is a bitch.

They send you to war

Well, no, politicians did that. Not Corporations. I don't know where you got that idea, but our government made all that happen, not some mystery shadow corporation..

pillage your treasury.

The God Damm Government is doing that for us.... not some mystery Corp....

Your government now routinely spies on you and strip-searches you, and are taking more and more steps towards detention without trial, torture and killing.

Horse shit. I travel all the time. None of that has happened to me or anyone I know. You are focusing on 0.00001% of any person who travels.

I don't know about you guys, but I am FAR more scared of the trend toward corruption of the US government than I ever have been of any terrorist organisation.

I am much more fearful of a runaway government, unchecked and un-regulated.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The God Damm Government is doing that for us.... not some mystery Corp....

Strange how he never said that when wacko extremists - the worst type of conservative - were the government that was massacring American soldiers in Mission Accomplished for political aspirations. When wackos all but surrendered to the Taliban in Afghanistan. When wackos were kidnapping foreigners and justifying it using pretty expressions such as extraordinary rendition. When wackos were enriching the richest at the expense of all other Americans. When wackos refuse to prosecute Enron until all but embarrassed by the state of Oklahoma. When wackos refused to prosecute those who intentionally created a CA energy crisis. When wackos let First Energy operate a nuclear power plant with a potential Three Mile Island problem only because they ran a $400,000 Bush Cheney fund raiser. Same plant that was so mismanaged as to eat through its critically important containment dome. When wackos undermined what makes America great - science and research - by even destroying stem cell, quantum physics, space and advance energy research. Obama finally had to rescue the AMS experiment. And stop having White House lawyers rewriting science papers. These guys so hated American workers as to even stifle hybrid automobile products. Because profits are more important that things that once made America great.

Why did wackos destroy the US Space program by first not making any decisions, and then creating a disaster - Constellation, Orion, and Ares? Why did wackos attack so many space research projects? Why did wackos promote an obvious disaster only for political purposes - Man to Mars. And almost destroy the Hubble until a near revolt among the astronaut corp reversed that decision. Why did wackos says "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter". And therefore create today's economic calamity. Why did wackos all but protect bin Laden? All but protect Madoff. Why did wackos try to create a shooting war with China over a silly spy plane? Why did wackos do exactly what the Norwegian foreign minister predicted - destroy the Oslo Accords? Why did wackos make America's popularity throughout the world the lowest in post WWII history? Even turn a 90% popularity number in one of America's closest allies to less than 10% - and wackos said this was good.

Why does TheMercenary ignore all this to blame those who are not wacko extremists? Because Limbaugh et al tell him how to think. We have met the enemy and he is us. Forty years later, that same problem still exists. Those who most created all these problems are now blaming all others rather than look in a mirror.

Repeatedly ask TheMercenary to explain all these disasters. He will do everything to avoid your questions. So keep asking. Get him to admit to those mistakes. Or let him show all why most of America's problems are directly traceable to wackos who call everyone else a liberal.

Just because Beck, Hannity, et al are proven right by insulting all others does not mean TheMercenary is also right. Why do many disaster traceable to wacko extremists? Because "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."

We must cut spending by $1 trillion because wackos lied about Mission Accomplished - which then cost $1 trillion. So everyone but wackos (who lied about Saddam's WMDs) created our budget problems. We who are not wacko extremists should feel so guilty.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

most of America's problems are directly traceable to wackos who call everyone else a liberal.

What happened to the 85%?

Just because Beck, Hannity, et al are proven right

wait whaaat?

[Lamplighter]

Shall we start a pool on the date/time Israeli stealth's will leave a package on Iran's doorstep.

You Sir, have been warned.

Voice of America
Nov 19, 2011
US to Slap Isolated Iran With New Sanctions

The United States is getting ready to hit Iran with new, tougher sanctions,
with one top official saying Tehran now faces an "unprecedented" degree of isolation.

U.S. officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity late Friday,
said the sanctions could be unveiled as early as Monday and
would target Iran's petrochemical industry.
They said the new sanctions would seek to stop foreign companies
from investing in ventures like oil refineries.

The officials said foreign companies that violate the ban
would be cut off from access to the U.S. market,
and that European countries could introduce similar sanctions later next week.
<snip>
Iran has dismissed the IAEA report.
The country's IAEA envoy, Ali Ashgar Soltanieh, said the measure will only strengthen
Iran's determination to continue its uranium enrichment activities

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Shall we start a pool on the date/time Israeli stealth's will leave a package on Iran's doorstep.

I usually go with 'not going to happen' since an Israeli attack on Iran has been predicted every 1 to 2 years since 2005, but the idea is becoming more and more mainstream (in discussion terms, not agreement terms). There was a recent boom in discussion of the probability and strategy behind an attack since the IAEA report came out.

If Israel does bomb Iran, I'm guessing it will be after US leaves Iraq since the Iraqis won't be able to detect Israeli planes illegally flying over their airspace (unless SA gives Israel permission).

[Lamplighter]

Yes, I too am usually not paranoid/conspiratorial about such things.
But it was an article several days ago, similar to the one below,
that came to my mind when I read the "new sanctions" article.

I remember thinking, why are they making this (Israeli refusal)
public ... unless something is in the works ?
Now, announcement of the new sanctions...

The Telegraph
Nov 19,2011
Israel refuses to tell US its Iran intentions

Israel has refused to reassure President Barack Obama that
it would warn him in advance of any pre-emptive strike on Iran's nuclear capabilities,
raising fears that it may be planning a go-it-alone attack as early as next summer.

The disclosure, made by insiders briefed on a top-secret meeting between
America's most senior defence chief and Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel's hawkish
prime minister, comes amid concerns that Iran's continuing progress
towards nuclear weapons capability means the Jewish state has all
but lost hope for a diplomatic solution.
<snip>
"They [the Israelis] did not suggest that military action was being planned or was imminent,
but neither did they give any assurances that Israel would first seek Washington's permission,
or even inform the White House in advance that a mission was underway," one said.