Should you give money to the homeless?

[jimhelm]

Originally Posted by lookout123

That doesn't seem very ethical foot3. I think rather than giving them something and supporting their cycle of poverty we should employ them.

I've heard of people hiring them to sleep in their cars as a security measure. apart from the stink they'd leave, it has merit.

[anonymous]

Speaking anonymously... if I were homeless and could provide for my basic needs of, well, food and warmth and shit, I would probably spend the excess on booze or weed, too. Saving up pocket change isn't going to buy you a house, but it might buy you things that make you a little tiny bit happier about your fucked-up predicament. If you REALLY want to help, give them a job, or help them find one, but unloading the change from your pockets or throwing a few bucks to them could not possibly be more harm than good to those in real, serious need.

[monster]

And you are posting anon because...? Lame.

[casimendocina]

Bit of thread drift now as I'm thinking about what I see around me everyday...this should probably be a diary entry rather than a post, but anyway, if you can be bothered reading to the end and commenting, I'd be interested to know what you think.

Outside work (and pretty much on every corner), there's the people who have stalls on wheels that serve food and the motorcycle taxi drivers. These people don't earn a lot of money, but they're working and earning an honest living.

Then, there's the beggars, usually on the bridges which are used by pedestrians to cross main roads. Here, you find not only people selling stuff (clothes, strawberries, face masks in funky and not-so-funky designs to assist with preventing breathing in of pollution etc...) but also beggars.

There are a couple of women with babies, an old woman and a foot amputee who are regularly there. The amputee is often seen sweeping up the rubbish on the bridge (although I have been told that he brings his own rubbish-implication being that he is a sham).

On one of the bridges near the fanciest shopping mall in town, I've seen a guy who appears to have had the skin on one of his legs either burnt really badly or gouged out and it has now regrown but with significant dips-either way, it is horrific. My instinct is take him to a hospital/find out what kind of help there is available for this sort of thing...also with the amputee although his stump looks healthy or follow up to see if there is any government/NGO service that would look after people in this situation.

On discussing it with my Indonesian colleagues at work, their response was 1). are the injuries real? (I can't see how they wouldn't be) 2). stay well clear because if you engage you are likely to be drawn into other more serious problems aside from being robbed (given what those more serious problems might be weren't named directly, I'm presuming they meant rape). Given also that I am a foreigner and seen as very affluent (although my wage is significantly lower than what it was in Oz...the point really is the huge gap between what the middle/upper classes earn and what the poor earn) don't speak the language and don't yet know how this society works, at the moment, I'm just observing what's around me and continuing to donate to organised charities that deal with this.

I did also have someone in a relevant government department tell me that Indonesia has plenty of money but it's badly administered and lots of it gets siphoned off with corruption and if this were not the case, then there would be enough for everyone. Looking at all of this, it seems that the problem needs to be attacked at the level of addressing the corruption and establishing/expanding government services that cater for a much higher number of people. In the meantime though, (and this is more of a rhetorial question) those people who need food now to feed their children or get through to the next day when the government doesn't provide at all and their options for employment are severely limited, what do you do?

A meal that provides a proper, nutritious feed costs between A$1.00 - $2.50 but there is so much need and as a non-Asian, non-Indonesian, I (and other expats are/) am so visible that you, unfortunately, can't just think about the assisting someone in a particular moment, you have to think about the ramifications of your actions as well, not only for yourself, but for the organisation that is ultimately responsible for your well-being should something happen to you.

This particular situation, obviously, isn't unique to Indonesia. One difference is here though compared to other places I've lived (e.g. Argentina and Chile) is that a person may get robbed, but it's more likely to be pickpocketing rather than the direct threat of violence.

So after that very long ramble, I guess the question comes down to should you give to the homeless in a developing country where there is obvious need, but very little being done by the government about the problem?

[footfootfoot]

Casi, I think it would be treating the symptom and palliative at best. For terminal cases, palliative is all you can do. To make any kind of real difference one must be willing to address the root causes and that takes a level of commitment that only someone like Ghandi had.

Your question deserves a lengthier answer than I can type right now.

[casimendocina]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

Casi, I think it would be treating the symptom and palliative at best. For terminal cases, palliative is all you can do. To make any kind of real difference one must be willing to address the root causes and that takes a level of commitment that only someone like Ghandi had.

Your question deserves a lengthier answer than I can type right now.

Being one armed and all and busy with other things.

Seriously though, what you're saying makes sense.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by anonymous

Speaking anonymously... if I were homeless and could provide for my basic needs of, well, food and warmth and shit, I would probably spend the excess on booze or weed, too. Saving up pocket change isn't going to buy you a house, but it might buy you things that make you a little tiny bit happier about your fucked-up predicament. If you REALLY want to help, give them a job, or help them find one, but unloading the change from your pockets or throwing a few bucks to them could not possibly be more harm than good to those in real, serious need.

I think that about sums up my view really.

[Bullitt]

I pay my federal, state, and local taxes, plus give to Habitat for Humanity every year. So I don't give shit to the person standing on the freeway exit corner. I make $12/hr, so they're lucky I can make it work to afford giving to Habitat every year in the first place. Between those 4, my pockets are drained enough.

[Rhianne]

It has been ascertained that in the UK, and I've no reason to suspect that it's different in the US, around 80% (some estimates say 90% or more) of the long term homeless suffer from one or more serious mental condition.

Of course some people still believe that the mentally sick don't have a 'real' illness but I'm not going to comment on that.

Homeless people deserve whatever care and compassion we can give.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

My problem is, I've been assured by people who actually work at homeless shelters that the ones who want help--including a meal--know where to get it at any time. I know it's not universal, but around here the charities and homeless programs are very well funded, and there is no shortage of free food or a roof to sleep under. Most of the homeless that we do have will turn down food if you offer it to them. They'll tell you that what they really wanted was Burger King, not McDonald's, so if you could just give them the money they'll head on over there in a minute or two...

Of course it's a ruse, except for a few pros, they want cash to buy drugs or alcohol. But I feel if he/she doesn't get someone to give them cash, when the shakes get bad enough they're going to try to steal it. I don't think I'm going to change their life with a little cash, (although on occasion I have), but I may help keep them from hurting someone, or getting hurt.

[ZenGum]

If by "money" we mean berley, then, by all means.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Berley? Bait?

[ZenGum]

Australianism. Berley = loose bait scattered into the water to attract fish, rather than bait proper which is mounted on the hook.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Chum.

[infinite monkey]

Old buddy old pal.