PA budget

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Having sat across the table with an SBA representative, I can assure you this is fantasy.

But surely you "get" the sentiment that I expressed.

You bring up an interesting dichotomy, though. Granting you funds would increase taxes, and that makes them bad. Not granting you funds makes them bad, too, because you would like government help to start a business. Damned either way.

Originally Posted by Flint

Be that as it may, I'll be goddamned if Spex and his ilk are going to give away MY table scraps.

So it's not about the facts, it's about me.

I'm asking that everyone feels some pain. The commoners who are losing their jobs, or having their income frozen or reduced are feeling pain. They shouldn't pay any more. Now that the market is back to 12,000, the rich are not feeling any pain, and they should.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Now that the market is back to 12,000, the rich are not feeling any pain, and they should.

But "the rich" have worked hard to put themsleves ina position to be able to weather economic ups and downs. That is the point of acquiring wealth--to reduce the risk you are exposed to. What you are suggesting is to impose an artificial condition. In effect, to "undo" what they have done for themsleves.

My point is that you don't just "get" rich. If it hasn't been handed to you, nobody should be able to take it away.

[Fair&Balanced]

Originally Posted by Flint

But "the rich" have worked hard to put themsleves ina position to be able to weather economic ups and downs. That is the point of acquiring wealth--to reduce the risk you are exposed to. What you are suggesting is to impose an artificial condition. In effect, to "undo" what they have done for themsleves.

Progressive taxation, where the wealthier pay a marginally higher rate may be an "artificial condition" in theory. But in practice, it is the only systems of taxation that has proven to be able to fund the cost of government, which is why it has popular support.

It is not the wealthy complaining they pay too much in taxes. It is a relatively small segment of society with libertarian principles who want a "fair tax" system that have never been successfully applied anywhere in the world.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Flint

But "the rich" have worked hard to put themsleves ina position to be able to weather economic ups and downs. That is the point of acquiring wealth--to reduce the risk you are exposed to. What you are suggesting is to impose an artificial condition. In effect, to "undo" what they have done for themsleves.

My point is that you don't just "get" rich. If it hasn't been handed to you, nobody should be able to take it away.

Have you worked hard? Have you made the best decisions you could to put yourself in a position to attain wealth? My guess is that you put out as much effort as most "rich" people. Yet in the current climate, you will feel much more pain than the "rich" guy. You should not be left living paycheck to paycheck at a just-above-sustenance level when a guy who only works as hard as you and has reaped the benefits of our government gets to drive a Ferrari and summer on the Riviera.

[Spexxvet]

Flint, my raw household income puts me in the 28% tax bracket. My effective tax rate for 2010 was 6.53%. I have a 401(k), a mortgage and 3 kids - 1 in college. I live paycheck to paycheck, with lots of debt. I don't have the resources to manipulate my tax liability. Do you think that someone who does have the resources to manipulate the system pays the same tax rate that you do? Does he pay his share? No. Is that fair? It seems to me that the middle class is footing the bill for the rich, not the other way around.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Have you worked hard? Have you made the best decisions you could to put yourself in a position to attain wealth? My guess is that you put out as much effort as most "rich" people. Yet in the current climate, you will feel much more pain than the "rich" guy. You should not be left living paycheck to paycheck at a just-above-sustenance level when a guy who only works as hard as you and has reaped the benefits of our government gets to drive a Ferrari and summer on the Riviera.

Hard work, while important, isn't the main factor of financial success and it shouldn't be. It all comes down to playing the system. You will find people in all income categories that work tremendously hard but what separates them is what they are doing.

If you want to be financially successful you need to figure out how the world works and then be able to properly exploit it for your benefit. That will beat out hard work every time. It's not fair but it's how the world works.

[Undertoad]

If you want to be financially successful you either need to figure out how the world works and then be able to properly exploit it for your benefit, or figure out what the world wants and needs and deliver it for your benefit.