Thomas Jefferson - still relevant

[Griff]

You've said a lot there Rich. Deciding fitness to vote would be an amazing can of worms. It is obvious to partisans left and right that certain segments of the opposition are unfit to vote. Young people are too inexperienced, old people are too addled, god focused, godless... it could go on and on.

Accepting the results as valid is crucial. Bush v Gore came damn near to sinking that acceptance. The birther silliness only exacerbates the problem. If you believe that stuff try not being surprised when the other side finds that your duly elected official lacks credentials. I've attended my right wing Christmas events and the righties seemed leavened in their contempt for the President by the Congressional change. Now that they have a stake in the game they'll have to actually take positions other than "No". Hopefully some sense of balance will develop.

[Lamplighter]

Rich... very well said.
Griff...also

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

Accepting the results as valid is crucial. Bush v Gore came damn near to sinking that acceptance. The birther silliness only exacerbates the problem. If you believe that stuff try not being surprised when the other side finds that your duly elected official lacks credentials. I've attended my right wing Christmas events and the righties seemed leavened in their contempt for the President by the Congressional change. Now that they have a stake in the game they'll have to actually take positions other than "No". Hopefully some sense of balance will develop.

Well stated. I find the birther movement to border on lunacy. Who frigging cares already, he already got elected by an overwhelming majority. The same majority that just kicked out a huge number of incumbents in Congress. That is how it is suppose to work.

[Lamplighter]

I suspect RichLevy was speaking to the children born here in the US of parents who were illegal alients. These children are US citizens by birthright.

There are some who are not accepting of the 14th Amendment and who do want to disenfranchise these American citizens.

Calling them "white racist extremists" are Merc's words, but if it walks like a duck....

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Calling them "white racist extremists" are Merc's words, but if it walks like a duck....

Are you saying that all persons who disagree with the idea that we should give illegal aliens the right to vote and or citizenship are white racist extremists? Or just those who want to prevent the children of illegal aliens from becoming US citizens white racist extremists?

[xoxoxoBruce]

We didn't have a problem when Japs were mowing the lawn.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Are you saying that all persons who disagree with the idea that we should give illegal aliens the right to vote and or citizenship are white racist extremists? Or just those who want to prevent the children of illegal aliens from becoming US citizens white racist extremists?

I haven't yet said anyone was a "white racist extremist". Those are your words.
My words were "if it walks like a duck..."

There have been 3 groups in this thread, so far:

a) illegal aliens which (I assume) refers to "adults"
who made the decision to enter the US illegally

b) children of (a) who were brought into the US with those adults, and
since they were children they could not make their own decisions.

c) children of (a) who were (or will be) born here in the US, and so are US citizens,

And it would not surprise me if there were other situations or groups.

I believe RichLevy's post, and certainly my mine above, were in reference to (c).

Which group do you wish to talk about ?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

I haven't yet said anyone was a "white racist extremist". Those are your words.
My words were "if it walks like a duck..."

There have been 3 groups in this thread, so far:

a) illegal aliens which (I assume) refers to "adults"
who made the decision to enter the US illegally

b) children of (a) who were brought into the US with those adults, and
since they were children they could not make their own decisions.

c) children of (a) who were (or will be) born here in the US, and so are US citizens,

And it would not surprise me if there were other situations or groups.

I believe RichLevy's post, and certainly my mine above, were in reference to (c).

Which group do you wish to talk about ?

Rich made the tie between your choice c) and white racist extremists in this statement:

I can't even imagine what it was like to be living under Jim Crow and technically be allowed to vote but be cheated out of the opportunity. And now some idiots are proposing two discredited ideas that will take us 50 or a 100 years backward.

I was asking if he viewed those who oppose c) as being the same kind of people. I asked you the same question. And you implied you agreed with your "walks like a duck" statement, and yet you refuse to answer. Which is it?

[Lamplighter]

As specifically related to (c), I prefer RichLevy's words to yours.
"If it walks like a duck... " is up to each person's own interpretation.

Let me ask...
Do you agree that all current and future children in group (c) are now and should always be citizens of the US ?
Or, do you advocate changing that ?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Griff

You've said a lot there Rich. Deciding fitness to vote would be an amazing can of worms.

No, no, you're making it overly complicated. It's blatantly obvious the only people fit to vote are the ones that agree with me. See how simple I... I mean it, is.

[Lamplighter]

OK xoB, but you've got to stop being so wishy-washy