Bully-induced Suicide

Datalyss · 10-26-2010, 11:33 PM

I know this is probably gonna spark a heavy debate...or maybe not, but I'd like to know your thoughts on kids committing suicide as a result of being bullied.

smoothmoniker · 10-26-2010, 11:41 PM

I'm all but certain that there's not a one-to-one causation here. Bullying may be a contributing factor to the end result, but I find it very hard to believe that it was the all-sufficient cause of these kids committing suicide.

The full complexity of these situations doesn't make for good news coverage though, and "epidemics" grab more attention if they have a single, easily understood cause.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-26-2010, 11:53 PM

We went around on this a while ago but I don't remember which thread.

Datalyss · 10-27-2010, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothmoniker

I'm all but certain that there's not a one-to-one causation here. Bullying may be a contributing factor to the end result, but I find it very hard to believe that it was the all-sufficient cause of these kids committing suicide.

The full complexity of these situations doesn't make for good news coverage though, and "epidemics" grab more attention if they have a single, easily understood cause.

Interesting. I don't think any of the others I've talked to took this into consideration. OTOH, in most cases, the kids being bullied won't tell their parents about this, so the frustrations of constant bullying builds up to the point that the kid just decides to end his/her own life cuz they don't think they have any other option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

We went around on this a while ago but I don't remember which thread.

I figured as much, but I was too lazy to search for it.

DanaC · 10-27-2010, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothmoniker

I'm all but certain that there's not a one-to-one causation here. Bullying may be a contributing factor to the end result, but I find it very hard to believe that it was the all-sufficient cause of these kids committing suicide.

The full complexity of these situations doesn't make for good news coverage though, and "epidemics" grab more attention if they have a single, easily understood cause.

I agree to a point: but then again, I also think it depends on the scale and intensity of the bullying. Being bullied by a couple of people in class can be distressing; beng ostracised by your entire class and bullied on a regular basis can become intolerable, and if it goes on for an extended length of time I can well see that driving someone to drastic measures. I am sure that some of kids who've committed suicide have done so as a direct response to bullying.

[eta] Data!!!!! How ya been?

piercehawkeye45 · 10-27-2010, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

I agree to a point: but then again, I also think it depends on the scale and intensity of the bullying. Being bullied by a couple of people in class can be distressing; beng ostracised by your entire class and bullied on a regular basis can become intolerable, and if it goes on for an extended length of time I can well see that driving someone to drastic measures. I am sure that some of kids who've committed suicide have done so as a direct response to bullying.

Every person is different so I can't speak for everyone but I feel it is largely the emptiness of life which gets to people. When you hate your life and don't see anyway out of it, creating a void where it feels like your soul should be. It's hard for high schoolers to believe that life will get better when all they know is loneliness. That is why that "it gets better" campaign will probably have some tremendous effects on high schoolers that are contemplating suicide. The creators went through what many high schoolers are going through, not only homosexuals, and know the best advice to give them.

People can handle bullying, even extremely intense bullying, if they believe it is only temporary. When you think it will go on forever is when the depression, along with possible suicide, sets in.

Lamplighter · 10-27-2010, 09:37 AM

I suspect there is something of "getting even" attitude in suicides...

"You'll miss me when I'm gone"
"You'll be sorry you treated me that way"

which, of course, is completely useless because the "you's" will rationalize their own behaviors.

Shawnee123 · 10-27-2010, 10:01 AM

Flint · 10-27-2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datalyss

I know this is probably gonna spark a heavy debate...or maybe not, but I'd like to know your thoughts on kids committing suicide as a result of being bullied.

I'm for it.

Is this what we are supposed to be debating?

xoxoxoBruce · 10-27-2010, 10:14 AM

It's nature's way of weeding out the weak, thinning the herd, feeding the predators & scavengers, nourishing the soil, and conserving oxygen.

Shawnee123 · 10-27-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I'm for it.

Is this what we are supposed to be debating?

You be Pro, I'll be Con.

bbro · 10-27-2010, 10:29 AM

This has always been a sensitive issue for me. I was tormented constantly for 4 years in middle school for no apparent reason. Nothing I did was right. No matter what, they always found something to hassle me about. There were plenty of times I thought about it. It may sound silly since it was so long ago, but it still affects me to this day. I hate sitting with my back to people. I can't stand being in crowds. More often than not, the evil voice wins the mental battle in my head and brings me down into a dark hole.

A lot of times I wonder if I would be the same if they would have just left me alone or if the confidence I had before them would have reigned supreme instead of the doubt that I constantly battle.

Unless you've been tormented, you really can't understand how trapped and alone you feel even if you do have friends. You can't tell your parents because being the protectors that they naturally are, they may go to the school and complain. If that gets around, it will get exponentially worse.

Happy Monkey · 10-27-2010, 10:49 AM

It's even worse if the thing they are being bullied about is being gay, and there's a sizeable portion of society who says you're an evil sinner, or would if you told them. Perhaps even the people you would otherwise go to for support, like parents or school faculty.

dmg1969 · 10-27-2010, 11:23 AM

My brother and I were bullied in middle school. I don't recall things ever getting physical...it was more verbal bullying. We and our friends had the spiked hair thing going and one kid in particular would always call us "Kajagoogoo (80's bad that did Too Shy Shy, etc... http://www.kajagoogoo.com/) and make other snide remarks.

I remember going to the guidance counselor which probably made it worse. Eventually things calmed down. After graduating high school, we were at the local pool and we ran into the main kid who used to bully us. I swear he had not grown an inch but we both did. He came over and said something like "Hey ******s (our last name), what's up"? We both told him to fuck off before we kicked his ass. That felt good.

Bullying in today's age is different than back then (mid to late 80's). Kids today don't just bully, they attempt to either beat the crap out of you or mentally destroy you. Some kids can handle that and fight back while others can't. Parents (I do not have kids) need to be aware of changes in their kids and hope the kids open up to them. Sometimes, telling the parent who will then talk to the other kids' parents or the school just makes things harder on the bullied kid. So, the bullied kid may not say anything and just let things build until he/she does something irrational either to themselves or to the bullier(s). Sometimes that irrational thing, sadly, is suicide. They don't view suicide as a permanent solution to a temporary problem. They just want it to stop and that is the way they find.

If that happens and there is proof that the bullying led the kid to kill himself/herself, the bullier should be held legally accountable. You can't claim first degree murder, but they should be charged with something along the lines of involuntary manslaughter. My brother and I (identical twins by the way) were able to get through it because we stuck together. I imagine that a lot of bullied kids don't have that kind of support.

Happy Monkey · 10-27-2010, 11:35 AM

I was bullied in elementary school. They had limited power, because I was an introvert, and didn't care what they thought about me, and when it got physical I fought back. There was one unpleasant point, where my best friend realized I was unpopular, and tried his hand at a little light public bullying to separate himself from me.

10-26-2010, 11:33 PM	#1
Datalyss Huh? Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Gallman, MS, USA Posts: 384	Bully-induced Suicide I know this is probably gonna spark a heavy debate...or maybe not, but I'd like to know your thoughts on kids committing suicide as a result of being bullied.

10-26-2010, 11:41 PM	#2
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	I'm all but certain that there's not a one-to-one causation here. Bullying may be a contributing factor to the end result, but I find it very hard to believe that it was the all-sufficient cause of these kids committing suicide. The full complexity of these situations doesn't make for good news coverage though, and "epidemics" grab more attention if they have a single, easily understood cause. __________________ to live and die in LA

10-26-2010, 11:53 PM	#3
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	We went around on this a while ago but I don't remember which thread. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

10-27-2010, 10:01 AM	#8
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	__________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

10-27-2010, 10:14 AM	#10
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	It's nature's way of weeding out the weak, thinning the herd, feeding the predators & scavengers, nourishing the soil, and conserving oxygen. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

10-27-2010, 09:37 AM	#7
Lamplighter Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods Posts: 6,402	I suspect there is something of "getting even" attitude in suicides... "You'll miss me when I'm gone" "You'll be sorry you treated me that way" which, of course, is completely useless because the "you's" will rationalize their own behaviors.

10-27-2010, 10:29 AM	#12
bbro Insert witty comment here Join Date: May 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,182	This has always been a sensitive issue for me. I was tormented constantly for 4 years in middle school for no apparent reason. Nothing I did was right. No matter what, they always found something to hassle me about. There were plenty of times I thought about it. It may sound silly since it was so long ago, but it still affects me to this day. I hate sitting with my back to people. I can't stand being in crowds. More often than not, the evil voice wins the mental battle in my head and brings me down into a dark hole. A lot of times I wonder if I would be the same if they would have just left me alone or if the confidence I had before them would have reigned supreme instead of the doubt that I constantly battle. Unless you've been tormented, you really can't understand how trapped and alone you feel even if you do have friends. You can't tell your parents because being the protectors that they naturally are, they may go to the school and complain. If that gets around, it will get exponentially worse.

10-27-2010, 10:49 AM	#13
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	It's even worse if the thing they are being bullied about is being gay, and there's a sizeable portion of society who says you're an evil sinner, or would if you told them. Perhaps even the people you would otherwise go to for support, like parents or school faculty. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

10-27-2010, 11:23 AM	#14
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	My brother and I were bullied in middle school. I don't recall things ever getting physical...it was more verbal bullying. We and our friends had the spiked hair thing going and one kid in particular would always call us "Kajagoogoo (80's bad that did Too Shy Shy, etc... http://www.kajagoogoo.com/) and make other snide remarks. I remember going to the guidance counselor which probably made it worse. Eventually things calmed down. After graduating high school, we were at the local pool and we ran into the main kid who used to bully us. I swear he had not grown an inch but we both did. He came over and said something like "Hey ****s (our last name), what's up"? We both told him to fuck off before we kicked his ass. That felt good. Bullying in today's age is different than back then (mid to late 80's). Kids today don't just bully, they attempt to either beat the crap out of you or mentally destroy you. Some kids can handle that and fight back while others can't. Parents (I do not have kids) need to be aware of changes in their kids and hope the kids open up to them. Sometimes, telling the parent who will then talk to the other kids' parents or the school just makes things harder on the bullied kid. So, the bullied kid may not say anything and just let things build until he/she does something irrational either to themselves or to the bullier(s). Sometimes that irrational thing, sadly, is suicide. They don't view suicide as a permanent solution to a temporary problem. They just want it to stop and that is the way they find. If that happens and there is proof that the bullying led the kid to kill himself/herself, the bullier should be held legally accountable. You can't claim first degree murder, but they should be charged with something along the lines of involuntary manslaughter. My brother and I (identical twins by the way) were able to get through it because we stuck together. I imagine that a lot of bullied kids don't have that kind of support. __________________ Void where prohibited. Your results may vary. Not intended for resale. Do not remove tag. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.**

10-27-2010, 11:35 AM	#15
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	I was bullied in elementary school. They had limited power, because I was an introvert, and didn't care what they thought about me, and when it got physical I fought back. There was one unpleasant point, where my best friend realized I was unpopular, and tried his hand at a little light public bullying to separate himself from me. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

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