What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona?

Originally Posted by lookout123

That is one of the myths the opposition is promoting. The law has not been expanded to allow random sweeps. the new law only comes into effect in the course of investigating a crime or a lawful traffic stop.

Not according to the attorney for AZ cities.

And the text of the law which has a new definition of trespassing:

Sec. 3. Title 13, chapter 15, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by
39 adding section 13-1509, to read:
40 13-1509. Trespassing by illegal aliens; assessment; exception;
41 classification
42 A. IN ADDITION TO ANY VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW, A PERSON IS GUILTY OF
43 TRESPASSING IF THE PERSON IS BOTH:
44 1. PRESENT ON ANY PUBLIC OR PRIVATE LAND IN THIS STATE.
45 2. IN VIOLATION OF 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1304(e) OR 1306(a).

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

This goes beyond investigating a crime or a lawful traffic stop (in which cops are already authorized to check for papers).

It is creating a new crime...."trespassing by illegal aliens". Cops could approach anyone on public or private property and hold them if they cannot prove citizenship or legal residency.

[jinx]

After lawful contact is made, a cop is suspicious that a person is illegal. Person says "no, I have papers, just not on me". Person is now considered trespassing and may be held until immigration status is confirmed.

Police can not stop person on the street based solely on immigration status suspicion.

Originally Posted by jinx

After lawful contact is made, a cop is suspicious that a person is illegal. Person says "no, I have papers, just not on me". Person is now considered trespassing and may be held until immigration status is confirmed.

Police can not stop person on the street based solely on immigration status suspicion.

The interpretation I had from the city attorney was that cops can absolutely approach any person on the street under the "trespassing by illegal alien" provision of this law, assuming "reasonable cause" (undefined) and suspicion (undefined) and charge them with trespassing by an alien unless the person can show that he is a citizen or legal resident.

That is now the underlying crime and lawful contact (the cop is investigating possible "trespassing by illegal alien")...no need for a reliance on investigating a separate crime or traffic stop for a separate violation.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Redux

The interpretation I had from the city attorney was that cops can absolutely approach any person on the street under the "trespassing by illegal alien" provision of this law, assuming "reasonable cause" (undefined) and suspicion (undefined) and charge them with trespassing by an alien unless the person can show that he is a citizen or legal resident.

That is now the underlying crime and lawful contact (the cop is investigating possible "trespassing by illegal alien")...no need for a reliance on investigating a separate crime or traffic stop for a separate violation.

I'm sorry, I can't just take your word for it over what is actually written in the law.
If what you are saying were actually the case, it would be a clear 4th amendment violation and not worth the paper its written on.

Originally Posted by jinx

I'm sorry, I can't just take your word for it over what is actually written in the law.
If what you are saying were actually the case, it would be a clear 4th amendment violation and not worth the paper its written on.

You shouildnt take my word or the city attorney's word....but it is the interpretation of many attorneys.

The DOJ is currently reviewing the law for just that reason.

It is not unheard of for states to pass laws that clearly violate the Constitution....one only needs to look at many recent state abortion laws that have been thrown out.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Redux

This goes beyond investigating a crime or a lawful traffic stop (in which cops are already authorized to check for papers).

They are? Then why aren't the CA cops allowed to check for legal residency, even when they make an arrest?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They are? Then why aren't the CA cops allowed to check for legal residency, even when they make an arrest?

The federal law allows it.

AZ currently does it. CA has chosen not to do so.....blame Arnold.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

The federal law allows it.

AZ currently does it. CA has chosen not to do so.....blame Arnold.

Blame the violent protests by the Hispanic support groups who oppose any kind of control.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Blame the violent protests by the Hispanic support groups who oppose any kind of control.

What violent protests in Cali?

Cite?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Seizing the Post Office, stealing the American flag, and running up the Mexican flag.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Seizing the Post Office, stealing the American flag, and running up the Mexican flag.

I dont recall that.

Was it one person? a group?

Cite?

I do recall the immigration rally in Los Angeles a few years ago...one of the largest ever....half a million people.....no violence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Un...eform_protests

What is more violent....waving a Mexican flag or the backlash by the opposition of burning a Mexican flag in front of the Mexican embassy?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Seizing the Post Office, stealing the American flag, and running up the Mexican flag.

How many people were injured or killed?