Its not just the Catholics anymore

[Shawnee123]

Plus, if bad thoughts ever crossed your mind you would forever writhe in hellfire. I was fearful once too.

[monster]

Defending the Catholic church based on "It's not just us" Is a little like defending alcohol abuse as an acceptable lifestyle because it's not just drunk drivers who kill people.

If only catholics would put as much frigging effort into getting their house in order as they do defending it, there'd be a lot less to defend.

You know why you don't hear of atheists being up on child abuse charges? because you can't persuade a bunch of parents to trust their precious children to pedophiles, and persuade the children to keep quiet about it without that whole "god moves in mysterious ways, do not question, have faith" control shit.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by monster

...You know why you don't hear of atheists being up on child abuse charges?....

Because it's not as controversal when it isn't hypocritical?

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Cloud

What people are not understanding is that these cases that are coming to light in the Catholic Church are old;


Yes, it was wrong, but in hindsight, we are trying to wrestle with this problem with a certain amount of openness and understanding that did not exist at the time.

Why do you think people don't understand many of the cases in the news are 'old'? And what difference does that make? Is there evidence of a change of tactic? I don't think so - I mean, Ratzinger is wearing a silly hat and not an orange jumpsuit RFN isn't he?
So why assume the child raping he personally was A-OK with has stopped? Maybe they just got better at hiding it. I mean, keeping detailed records of your crimes isn't all the bright...

The letters written back and forth suggest to me there was a certain amount of openness, just not with law enforcement - which suggests a certain level of understanding.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

NO ONE THINKS ITS JUST THE CATHOLICS WHO ARE PEDOPHILES...

You are arguing a point that I never made. Why do you keep bringing it up? It was ALWAYS that it was never just the Catholic Church who covered shit up. . .

Originally Posted by SamIam

Mormon officialdom allowed this man to continue to lead scout troops even after his wrong-doing came to light.

Bold mine.

Originally Posted by classicman

BAD Thread title. It never was just the Catholics.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

It WAS just the Catholics where the top dogs were covering it up at such a level that they were basically sanctifying it, which has been the point all along.

I disagreed and now YOU are the one bent outta shape.
This appears to be a simple misunderstanding, but your rigidity in this case escalated the situation.

I have no problem with you hating the Catholic Church. You have made that abundantly clear.

Originally Posted by classicman

I know I'm missing something . . . ???

And your reply...

for fuck's sake. quit picking my posts apart into shreds...if you read the whole thing, as conversation (shut the fuck up before you say it, mercface) you MIGHT see my point.

I was trying to steer the discussion to that which I was referring to since there was obviously something awry.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Sheesh. I don't give a fuck about your stupid church ...your leaders

I have serious issues with the Catholic Church - I have for years. I haven't donated to them.
I do not nor have I ever condoned their actions in this matter. I have my own beliefs, thank you.

Anyone who molests a child should rot in a cell or much worse. Those who covered up for them should also be penalized just like one who is an accomplice in other crimes.

[Shawnee123]

Hahahahahaaa...

I give up. You are impossible to discuss things with. I am not bent out of shape...it's just that talking to you is like talking to a robot, it's frustrating.

You know what I meant. I was even being a little giving towards the Catholic's viewpoint...saying it's good that other churches are getting busted...that no one thinks Catholics are the only molesters.

And really, what does it matter if someone misreads or misconstrues Sam's thread title? YOU know your church is good. YOU have faith. Other's misconceptions shouldn't bother you. Doesn't your religion give you that warm fuzzy feeling?

Now, go pick apart someone ELSE's posts and try to turn THEM around. Just make sure you're picking apart all the right (wrong) people. Your god won't protect your popularity.

Or, keep spinning in circles.

Now, what WAS that joke in the other thread? You still haven't told me which joke you thought it was. I'm SOOOO curious.

[Cloud]

My point was that our understanding of the problem and treatment has progressed. Psychologists used to think pedophiles could be cured, and in that light, the actions taken 40 years ago were perhaps more reasonable by the standards of the day. Acceptable? No. Understandable? perhaps.

I believe that religious institutions in general have made great strides over the past 10 years in opening up this issue before their congregations, reaching out to the injured, and putting procedures in place to deal with grievances. Yes, it should have been done sooner, and no, it doesn't mitigate the damage that has already been done, but some progress has been made.

[classicman]

Uh, yeh. Ok. I'll let my last post stand - I do not see the circle.
If someone else would like to let me know where I am wrong or was inaccurate, please do.

This type of interaction, especially with someone I like, is growing tiresome. I cannot correct a problem if I don't understand it.

[Shawnee123]

I tried to explain it to you. You don't listen.

I could try bulletted lists, footnotes...it doesn't matter. You won't listen to me. You get your head caught on some feeling that I'm dissing you and that's all you see.

I'm done trying, man. I really am. My feelings aren't yours to hurt anymore. This pretending you think I'm great just the way I am, as my buddy, then fucking with me at every turn, while others remain unscathed, is ending. Don't say I'm being paranoid, or throwing any card. It's the way it is, it's the way you are, and I'm done.

[classicman]

I guess its me then. not that it matters, but I'm sorry.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by monster

Defending the Catholic church based on "It's not just us" Is a little like defending alcohol abuse as an acceptable lifestyle because it's not just drunk drivers who kill people.

Who is defending the Catholic Church? Where has ANYONE here done that?

If only catholics would put as much frigging effort into getting their house in order as they do defending it, there'd be a lot less to defend.

Agreed.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by classicman

I guess its me then. not that it matters, but I'm sorry.

I take responsibility for my part in it.

I'm sarcastic. You know that. But I do have points, and feelings, and everything I say shouldn't be completely discounted because of my, shall we say, style.

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm just really really tired, just plain wrung out.

I'm sorry too.

[classicman]

I've been rereading this and I think I got it, but I'm skeered to try again.
= I think you and I were arguing two different points.

ETA - anyway - Fuck the Boy Scouts & the Mormons and and and!

[Shawnee123]

Fucking the boy scouts kinda goes against our whole "we don't like pedophiles" stance.



It's all good. I'm done with religion for a bit.

[classicman]

see what happpens when I try sarcasm - ba duh