computer problem

[Pete Zicato]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

running PTDD Fdisk:

says Error: Partition 1 on harddisk1 start sector is 33. The right start sector is 1. Do you want to correct?

BTW, I'd guess this is most certainly your problem. I suspect a virus trying to mess with your machine.

Where are you on this?

[Pete Zicato]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

Everything I've seen leads me to think that the C drive has died. I took it out and put it back in last night.....rebooted without the boot disc, held my finger on the drive to see if i could feel it spinning up, and felt nothing.

I dunno, Jim. PTDD was accessing something when it gave you that information above. You don't have more than one physical hard drive in this thing, do you?

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Pete Zicato

BTW, I'd guess this is most certainly your problem. I suspect a virus trying to mess with your machine.

Where are you on this?

Unfortunately, I'm stuck at work, and it's getting busy.

I dunno if jinx wants to try playing with this today...but if anyone wants to chat tonight, I'll be there by 10 pm probably.

[BigV]

pm

[Pete Zicato]

We've got people coming tonight, but I'll try to check in if I can.

Sounds like BigV might be offering too.

[jinx]

I gotta get out of the house.

[BigV]

While I'm waiting, I'll think out loud about problems like this. I'm not trying to patronize anyone.

The computer has a cpu, the central processing unit. The "big" chip that gets all the headlines. It's like the engine in a car. It takes a lot of parts to make a car go, but the engine is the component that gets the badge with displacement or aspiration, etc. In the computer, the cpu can only run instructions, just as the engine can only run on gas. When the computer is **first turned on**, there are no instructions. Lots of stuff has to happen first.

The first thing that happens when the power's turned on is a chip(s) in the computer that has built into it just a few instructions is activated. These instructions are the barest minimum that are needed to tell the computer where the pieces and parts are. Where to find more instructions and where to put the result of those instructions. The input and output systems of the computer. This is the BIOS, the Basic Input Output System. Every computer has something like this.

It is this bios that we were all frothing about at the start (and well into the thread). It is activated at the very *very* beginning, and it is the part where the computer gets to learn what hardware is where, like... your drive C:. What's on the C: drive? More instructions of course, not to mention your data. This is why we wanted to find out if the bios could see drive C:. Turns out you could see C:, a very good thing.

Now, once the bios has id'ed all the parts in the system (more or less), it hands control off to the next part, usually drive C:. Usually, but not always. For example, lj was able to boot (btw, boot is short for bootstrap loader. A bootstrap loader is a program on a chip/disk that starts a system from essentially nothing, just as you would levitate yourself by lifting up on your own bootstraps.) the system from the cdrom drive. The bios knew enough to boot, then hand off control to the next system. C: drive in this case was not working so the cdrom was the next choice.

At this point, we've booted the system to the point when we can use the instructions on **some** disk (hd or cdrom). Now the process repeats itself kind of, just like you'd shift gears in a car as you accelerate. This boot (not power on boot, but from a disk boot) process also has a starting point. The beginning part is called the Master Boot Record. This is a bit like the first groove on a vinyl LP (children, seek out your parents or grandparents for information on "vinyl LP"). If this groove is functioning properly, it guides the needle and tonearm to the rest of the record where the music plays, and so it works on your hd (hard drive). If this groove (boot record) has a scratch, you're kind of screwed. The needle and tonearm will not get to the music. Same is true for the hd, if the boot record is messed up, like if it is expecting to see the next instruction in location 1 but is instead directed to location 33, trouble will result. Imagine trying to listen to the record from the first groove and then jumping to groove 33. You'd miss a lot, right? So would the computer.

Fixing this in the computer is best left to a program that can detect this trouble and using the repair commands in that program. One of the previous post described this process with the fixmbr command. This seems like good advice in this case.

This is a good place to stop for now.

[xoxoxoBruce]

After reading that explanation in plain English, I'm awaiting the next installment with bated breath.

[classicman]

Very well written post BigV - understandable even! thanks. Oh and what that retired xoB said.

[tw]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

you base your assumption on the incorrect premise that i only have one computer.

Obviously you have a second computer because you are on the cellar. Therefore you have everything you need to get diagnostics and to fix the first computer. Everything posted is easy - designed for layman. But, again, your problem is that you are not reading what was posted.

For example. You have a second computer. So you go to the disk drive manufacturer's web site and get the disk drive diagnostic. How is that so difficult? And again, the problem is not your broken computer. The problem is you did not read simple directions to see, for example, that Sony should have provided those diagnostics on the hard drive, on a provided CD-Rom, and on their web site. You have a second computer. That means you use that second computer to get diagnostics. Or use the CD-Rom that only better computer manufacturers provide for free.

It is a Sony. That does not mean anything except that it is a Sony. That does not say the computer is from a responsible manufacturer. If Sony does not provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics, then it is no better than Gateway.

PTDD - another completely different solution to the same problem, says the computer is talking to the disk drives computer. What that all means is explained in simplest English in the previous post. But again, it is completely new to you. So how many times did you reread it? And then you ask questions about each sentence you do not grasp - one sentence or paragraph at a time.

All this silliness about not understanding is emotions (also called frustration). You must dispose of that your #1 problem to solve this problem. We already went through that previously with your Dell. A simple solvable problem that remained unsolved only because you got frustrated quickly and gave up.

If anything is confusing, then emotionally get angry and blame others. The learned keep asking questions every hour of the month until they learn. You post frustration rather than ask questions. Therefore I cannot help you with your confusion and frustration. You don't ask questions. You just keep expressing emotions. And again, the most difficult problem is not the computer. The most difficult problem is getting you to address the problem without letting emotions (frustration) take hold.

PTDD says you have two partitions? One is the recovery partition? Then only the Recovery Console can access that partition. And computer's CPU and disk drive's CPU are talking to each other.

Forget, for now, referenced to C: and D: drives. It exists only when discussing disk drive 'software'. First you must establish disk drive 'hardware'. Define were so many ways to do that. Does Sony provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics? Or is Sony another inferior computer company like Gateway? Then move on to other solutions such as the diagnostic from the disk drive manufacturer. Or the Recovery Console as provided in that Microsoft 'easy to understand' description. Or use the PTDD software to only see what the disk drive is doing. Or use the hyperlinks provided by UT.

In every case they are ideal layman's descriptions. And in every case, you do not even being to understand what is written until the third reread. That is how technical things work.

Caution - fixing any partition or file on a drive without first establishing hardware (disk) is good (without first using comprehensive hardware diagnostic or disk drive manufacturer's diagnostic) can result in loss of all data on the disk.

Everything I posted assumed you have a second computer. That means you have Sony's comprehensive diagnostic available from all three sources (on disk, on CD-Rom, and on their web site) as I have posted now six times.

[tw]

Originally Posted by BigV

Fixing this in the computer is best left to a program that can detect this trouble and using the repair commands in that program. One of the previous post described this process with the fixmbr command.

As BigV described, BIOS is a program that exists only in the motherboard. BIOS then loads other programs from the hard drive, from the CD-Rom, or from a memory stick.

Programs it can load are comprehensive hardware diagnostic (from hard drive, CD-Rom, or from what was downloaded from the Sony web site), Console Recovery program (from the Microsoft CD-Rom), PTDD (from that CD-Rom), disk drive manufacturer's diagnostic (downloaded from the disk drive web site), DOS, or Windows (from hard drive or Microsoft CD-Rom). You choose what BIOS will load and execute by what you put into the CD-Rom or memory stick. Or by pressing F2 to select what you want to execute from that menu (same menu that jinx choose to boot with or without network support).

Fixmbr is only one of many repair programs available on the Recovery Console (one a Microsoft and Sony provided CD-Rom). It will fix software on the disk drive.

However if a diagnostic does not first confirm disk drive hardware is OK, then fixmbr might cause permanent data damage. That is why more responsible computer manufacturers (ie Dell, HP) provide comprehensisve hardware diagnostics for free. And why everyone knows Gateway and E-machines are crap.

Provided are numerous options. Same thing is posted by so many with different words. Every post at layman's level.

All solutions load and execute only when the BIOS does so. You select what the BIOS loads either by installing the appropriate CD-Rom (or memory stick) or by using that F2 key to select what to load.

Everything you have posted implies the motherboard CPU is talking to the disk drive's CPU.

[mbpark]

Hi,

Please do the following:

1. From the ultimate boot CD, go to Start -> Run -> compmgmt.msc
2. go to Disk Management from there.
3. See if you have a Disk 0 hard drive.
4. If you do, then go Start -> Run -> cmd
5. Run chkdsk c: /f from the Command Prompt

That will fix any small HD issues and let you mount the drive.

[jinx]

Ok, I will [attempt to] do that right now. Thank you.

[jinx]

1. check
2. check
3. no - only thing there is the dvd drive

[Pete Zicato]

Originally Posted by jinx

1. check
2. check
3. no - only thing there is the dvd drive

Yeah, that's what I would have expected given what you already tested. It sounds like the bios (hardware level) sees the hard drive, but the OS level doesn't. mbpark will have the best idea of what to do next.

It would be interesting to know though, whether your windows install cd gives you the option to try to fix the os.