What to believe

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

Tang.

We could really use the reduction of zealotry this sort of thinking leads to. It is unfortunate that reincarnation got inserted into such a reasonable philosophy, but I guess you don't have to believe it.

But what if reincarnation actually happens in the karmatic way that Buddhist teaching believes? I mean, really, who knows what happens after death? Spirit, soul, whatever you want to call it.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

But what if reincarnation actually happens in the karmatic way that Buddhist teaching believes? I mean, really, who knows what happens after death? Spirit, soul, whatever you want to call it.

Whether it happens or not doesn't matter really does it? I don't think it changes my approach and any hope for revenge on evil doers isn't a healthy way to live. I see the idea of reincarnation as a result of the same attachment Buddhist teaching asks us to avoid. Maybe I've become too attached to the idea that when the lights go out they stay out.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

Whether it happens or not doesn't matter really does it? I don't think it changes my approach and any hope for revenge on evil doers isn't a healthy way to live. I see the idea of reincarnation as a result of the same attachment Buddhist teaching asks us to avoid. Maybe I've become too attached to the idea that when the lights go out they stay out.

I guess I am not seeing where the revenge angle got into it. It changes much about the way we conduct ourselves in this life if you believe that another one awaits you.

[squirell nutkin]

Originally Posted by Griff

Whether it happens or not doesn't matter really does it? I don't think it changes my approach and any hope for revenge on evil doers isn't a healthy way to live. I see the idea of reincarnation as a result of the same attachment Buddhist teaching asks us to avoid. Maybe I've become too attached to the idea that when the lights go out they stay out.

That's very Zen, Griff. Most non Buddhists think of Buddhism as being a single religion when in fact there are probably as many schools or variations of Buddhism as there are in Christianity. Perhaps the biggest difference being that you don't have the Zen schools (yes there are many) warring with the Tibetan Schools (also many) like you have the Catholics and Protestants doing.

I say your point is Zen because when it comes to things like re-incarnation, the Zen school is more about "This Very Moment" What will you do NOW?

When I first started studying with my teacher I asked him "What about reincarnation?"
"What about it?"
"Do we die and get reincarnated?"
"Who is it that dies?"
and so on, always bringing you back to right now.

Many people's ideas of "Karma" and reincarnation as being a form of payback are misinterpretations based on distortions from the lens of the Judaeo-Christian ideologies.

There isn't a divine judge meting out punishment in Buddhism. (Avoiding a long discussion of the various deities in Tibetan, of which I know next to nothing) In Zen, at any rate, living a moral and ethical existence does not require the existence of a god.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin

Many people's ideas of "Karma" and reincarnation as being a form of payback are misinterpretations based on distortions from the lens of the Judaeo-Christian ideologies.

It's them damn hippies, I tells ya.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin

When I first started studying with my teacher I asked him "What about reincarnation?"
"What about it?"
"Do we die and get reincarnated?"
"Who is it that dies?"
and so on, always bringing you back to right now.

That is some good onion peeling there, something to ponder.

I do have to adjust my lens after all that Catholicism, it seems I'm as susceptible to that sort of thinking as the heaven and hell folks who helped force my eyes open in the Church.

[squirell nutkin]

Originally Posted by Griff

That is some good onion peeling there, something to ponder.

I do have to adjust my lens after all that Catholicism, it seems I'm as susceptible to that sort of thinking as the heaven and hell folks who helped force my eyes open in the Church.

It's bred in the bone and won't come out in the flesh.. easily.

As a former Catholic I still check myself, the more I peel though, the more I see similarities and differences. The key difference is the idea of union with God (two becoming one) vs The inherent oneness.

Another key difference is original sin vs. being born perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

In Buddhism, we are all Buddhas, all enlightened. Not everyone has realized it yet. Realized as in made real, not as in understood.

In Zen they are very big on "Don't take my word for it, find out, verify for yourself" This goes back to UT's original posting. Find out for yourself. Belief is wholly inadequate. Belief does nothing for you.

Personally knowing, for a fact, verifying. That is something else.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin

Many people's ideas of "Karma" and reincarnation as being a form of payback are misinterpretations based on distortions from the lens of the Judaeo-Christian ideologies.

Correct, based on my understanding of it. It has little to nothing to do with "payback".

There isn't a divine judge meting out punishment in Buddhism. (Avoiding a long discussion of the various deities in Tibetan, of which I know next to nothing) In Zen, at any rate, living a moral and ethical existence does not require the existence of a god.

Correct again. We are all Gods. You are God. I am God. God is us. I know a bit about Tibetan Buddhism, which is my only interest. Karmic rebirth is completely misunderstood.