Pictures of Caskets

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Ignoring the facts wont change them.

No it won't - Like the facts in post #49.

Clinton failed and so did Bush. That is a fact.

[TheMercenary]

Here is a great book.

http://books.google.com/books?id=9KZ...linton&f=false

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Clinton failed and so did Bush. That is a fact.

Clinton create Alex Station to get bin Laden. Clinton moved the CounterTerrorism Security Group up to cabinet level because he regarded the threat so serious. Clinton had all cabinet officers (senior officials) participate in terrorist simulations to prepare for possible terrorist attacks. Clinton responded to terrorist warnings so that Deana Dean's discovered the LAX airport bomb. Then averted terrorist attacks known or suspected in Toronto, out of Brooklyn NY, Amman Jordan, and Egypt.

George Jr stopped the 10th Mountain Division from going after bin Laden in Tora Bora. Halted special forces operations that would use the same trail that bin Laden eventually escaped on. Disbanded Alec Station because good politics needed bin Laden alive. Surrendered Afghanistan to the Taliban. Moved the CounterTerrorism Security group out of the White House. Would not conduct any high level meeting on terrorism even when “all alarms were flashing red” for weeks. Demoted the CSG to a lower level because terrorism was not considered a threat. Condi Rice (National Security Adviser) is specifically cited for wanting this demotion. Ignored the memo on his desk that warned of 11 September. Did not stop even one domestic terrorist attack. Made zero decisions all day on 11 September. Used torture so often that no useful intelligence was obtained from captured al Qaeda operatives (ie Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was tortured at least 183 times.)
It’s all Clinton's fault. Limbaugh tells neocon extremists to say that. It's Clinton's fault because George Jr all but protected bin Laden.

"When were we going after bin Laden"? Neocons refused to discuss it. Otherwise they must admit to being extremist.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Clear, factual, sustinct... excellent.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Clear, factual, sustinct... excellent.

Seconded.

And I dont think you will find any of it in Merc's "great book" the author of which was on Hannity's show recently raising questions about Obama starting the day with Muslim prayers.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Seconded.

And I dont think you will find any of it in Merc's "great book" the author of which was on Hannity's show recently raising questions about Obama starting the day with Muslim prayers.

The author of that book trumps your expertise by miles.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The author of that book trumps your expertise by miles.

Lol....a typical Merc diversionary ploy to get around the facts.

He is an ideologue of your persuasion who doesn't trump the facts that TW noted.

Clinton create Alex Station to get bin Laden -- Bush disbanded Alex Station

Clinton moved the CounterTerrorism Security Group up to cabinet level because he regarded the threat so serious. Clinton had all cabinet officers (senior officials) participate in terrorist simulations to prepare for possible terrorist attacks -- Bush moved the CounterTerrorism Security group out of the White House and ignored the warning memo from Clarke (and Bush's Anti-Terrorism Task Force chaired by Cheney did not meet until AFTER 9/11)

and more:

Clinton developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed the first national coordinator of anti-terrorist initiatives -- Bush's top national security policy in his first nine months in office was restoring Reagan's missile defense system.

Clinton created the Hart-Rudman Commission to provide a comprehensive review of national security requirements -- the Republican Congress at the time put it on the back burner, where it stayed when Bush took office.

Clinton tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes on two occasions based on actionable intelligence -- both were denounced by the Republican Congress at the time.

After the Oklahoma City bombing, Clinton proposed comprehensive anti-terrorism legislation in 1996 to address both domestic and foreign terrorism, including expanded wiretapping - it was watered down by the Republican Congress who complained that it infringed on rights to privacy.

and the final piece:

The August 6, 2001 PDB:

Another example, in the addition to the Jan 01 memo from Clarke, on which the Bush administration did not act. Rice said it was old news.

Was any of the above in Miniter's book?

[classicman]

Now we all know it wasn't because the book is about the Clinton administration failing to respond to bin Laden, NOT Bush's failure. Why do you keep bringing Bush into this?
If you actually read any of it, it details the multiple times which the Clinton Administration had opportunities and failed to respond. In fact, it was right around the time when Clinton was being impeached, dealing with multiple lawsuits for illegal campaign contributions, perjury, witness tampering, obstructions of justice, and sexual harassment.
The book further states that on at least five separate occasions the Clinton Administration dating back to 1996. Additionally, the then Director of the CIA notified the administration that they were basically already in a state of war as early as 1998, but Clinton was too busy to deal with this issue as he had more pressing problems with all the lawsuits against him.

I'm not saying that Bush didn't fail, but again, to imply that Clinton didn't fail as well is simply not accurate. Otherwise we would have gotten him.

Originally Posted by classicman

I'm not saying that Bush didn't fail, but again, to imply that Clinton didn't fail as well is simply not accurate. Otherwise we would have gotten him.

Which of these is a failure:

Clinton create Alex Station to get bin Laden.

Clinton moved the CounterTerrorism Security Group up to cabinet level because he regarded the threat so serious. Clinton had all cabinet officers (senior officials) participate in terrorist simulations to prepare for possible terrorist attacks.

Clinton developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed the first national coordinator of anti-terrorist initiatives

Clinton created the Hart-Rudman Commission to provide a comprehensive review of national security requirements.

Clinton tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes on two occasions based on actionable intelligence

Clinton proposed comprehensive anti-terrorism legislation in 1996 to address both domestic and foreign terrorism.

Yes, the CIA actions that Clinton authorized against al Queda failed.

Again...shallow ideological black and white thinking to blame Clinton because the CIA missed the target. The kind of thinking that if policies dont result in 100% success..the policies are failures.

So that makes the Clinton comprehensive anti-terrorism policies, including all of the above, a failure? Only to shallow wingnut ideologues like MerClassic and Miniter.

[classicman]

Did you read any of the book?

Originally Posted by classicman

Did you read any of the book?

Nope...I couldnt get past the first few pages of undocumented and false allegations. I tend to avoid ideological diatribes and stick to publications that are documented and footnoted when the topic is policy related.

I could read it as fiction, but it still wouldnt be high on my list.

Now, which of the above Clinton policies was a failure?

[classicman]

Yes, the CIA actions that Clinton authorized against al Queda failed.

Yes, the CIA actions that Clinton authorized against al Queda failed.

So on two occasions the actions failed..and that makes the comprehensive anti-terrorism policy a failure?

And thats not shallow ideological thinking?

[classicman]

You asked a stupid question and got a reply equal to it.

Originally Posted by classicman

You asked a stupid question and got a reply equal to it.

I asked you which of these policies is a failure:

Clinton create Alex Station to get bin Laden.

Clinton moved the CounterTerrorism Security Group up to cabinet level because he regarded the threat so serious. Clinton had all cabinet officers (senior officials) participate in terrorist simulations to prepare for possible terrorist attacks.

Clinton developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed the first national coordinator of anti-terrorist initiatives

Clinton created the Hart-Rudman Commission to provide a comprehensive review of national security requirements.

Clinton tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes on two occasions based on actionable intelligence

Clinton proposed comprehensive anti-terrorism legislation in 1996 to address both domestic and foreign terrorism.

Pardon the stupid question.