U.K. Drinking Costs

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The problem I see with the drinking and driving issue is that there is a clear cut between what is ideal and what is reality. Of course drinking and driving is bad and I personally don't know anyone that will disagree but in reality, the drinking and driving dilemma becomes more of calculating risk then a clear cut right and wrong.

We are supposed to think ahead but eventually many people will face the fork in the road when they are just drunk enough that they shouldn't be driving, are less then a mile away from their house, its -20 degrees outside, have no money for a cab, and no one else is on the road. Most people I know will decide that they will take the risk of drinking and driving even though they know they shouldn't. They make it home safety and then tell themselves that they will never put themselves in that position again. Naturally, they will put themselves in that situation again and will tell themselves that they have made it home before and they can do it again. That is where the snowball starts rolling and people start to feel confident in their drinking and driving abilities and start to believe that drunk driving accidents only happen to "other less responsible" people.

There are many flaws in the drinking and driving logic but in reality, many people are going to take the drinking and driving risk. No matter how much campaigning is done, no matter how low you make the drinking and driving limit, and no matter how big of consequences you make, drinking and driving is going to happen and most people are going to do it "safety" even though people know they shouldn't. The best solution IMO is creating alternative options and not trying to forcefully lower the number of drunk drivers with big consequences. Taxis are good and are widely used but they are expensive and many people prefer to drive. I don't know of a good solution besides expanding cab services and I doubt there really is one but I just don't believe continuing to lower the drinking limit and raising the consequences will do anything.


As a note, I do not disagree with the current laws in my area (.08 limit and heavy consequences for being caught) and quit drinking so I have never and will never drink and drive. Even though it is a reality that people will drink and drive, there must be consequences for doing it because of what can happen in the worst case scenario. It is not a preferable system but will have to do until a better is thought up.

Well, the bloke I attended to the other night wasn't far from home on a straight road and he still managed to get himself into trouble.

I don't know if attitudes are different in the US or not, but over here, the majority of the population doesn't drink then drive. Usually the designated driver wont have any at all, or if they do, maybe just one or two light beers. Clearly there are still those here who choose to take the risk of drinking and driving, but personally I have never done it and would never consider it. If I'm going to be driving I just don't drink. Most people I know have the same attitude. It's the 1% out there who decide to 'take the risk' that are the problem.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I don't know if attitudes are different in the US or not, but over here, the majority of the population doesn't drink then drive.

Over here, I would say that the majority of people do not drink and drive the majority of the time. That means there is a minority of people who do drink and drive and have no problem with it and then there is a larger minority that will plan ahead on most occasions with taxis and designated drivers, but will slip up every once in a while and drink and drive if they feel "okay to drive". As I've said, almost everyone here knows its bad to drink and drive but there are rare occasions where people didn't plan ahead and the risk is taken. There are a few people who have no problem drinking and driving and do it on a regular occasion, I would assume these people make up the vast majority of accidents, but these people, as in Australia, make up the vast minority of people.


I guess my main point is that with respect to drunk drivers, as ironic as it sounds, there are two types of drunk drivers, those that do respect others and try to avoid drunk driving and those that do not give a shit and will do it on regular occasions. For the first group, these people will only drink and drive if they their options are extremely limited and will feel bad for it. These people will take advantage of other means if they are available. The second group, these are the people that will drink and drive no matter what and have no respect for anyone else because they either don't care or they think they are a "good drunk driver". These people are the reason why we need harsh drinking and driving laws.

So my idea on a good solution is to polarize these two groups. As realistically as possible, offer easy and cheap alternatives ways to travel to lower the drunk driving for those who do want to avoid it while keeping and maybe extending harsh penalties for those who choose not to take them.

At my university, there is a service where the student body will take turns driving a van around at night, giving free rides to whoever needs transportation. From my personal experiences, this is cheap, easy, and relatively quick. With this service, there is very little excuse to drink and drive. Obviously, this exact service is not realistic on a large city scale, but the idea could somewhat be used.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Don't forget Pierce is in college. He's surrounded by people of a completely different mindset, because they do not yet know anyone who screwed up a year of their life with a DUI, or worse, gotten into a terrible accident or killed someone.

True, I was going to integrate that into this post. I do not know about the people that do get many DUIs and or have gotten an accident, but I do notice trends in the past two years. I noticed that out of the people that do drink and drive, there are those who hate doing it but will if they feel they have little alternative and those that feel comfortable doing it and do nothing to prevent themselves from getting in a bad situation. I am assuming that the first group will eventually learn to plan ahead more effectively and along with more and more people who quit drinking, designated drivers will be much easier to come by. I am also assuming the second group will get more and more comfortable with drunk driving and keep pushing themselves and then eventually get a few DUIs or get into an accident. I know it isn't that clear cut and DUIs and accidents do happen to those who I would consider in the first group but I am generalizing.

While you're waiting to find out which one of your friends it will happen to, Pierce, you would be wise to make sure it isn't you.

I know it will not be me. I quit drinking a year ago and always offer to DD and will even go out of my way to make sure my friends do not drink and drive. I have physically restrained people and have almost gotten into a fist fight about the issue. I am confident in my ability to plan ahead for myself and my friends but even then, especially for those in the young to mid twenties, it is almost impossible to know what will happen during the night so occasionally, bad situations will arise. What I have learned over the past few years is that it is not only disrespectful assholes who have no concern for other people's lives who drink and drive. There are legitimately respectful people who will drink and drive because of planning issues. This has changed my perspective on the issue and hence my different views. I am not advocating that my perspective the correct one but it is what I observe and will probably change as I get older. I am not trying to justify anyone's actions, I strongly disagree with drinking and driving, but I do realize, at least for my demographic, drinking and driving is a reality and I am thinking of possible solution.

Edit - Just in case I wasn't clear, I do not have any sympathy for people who get a DUI. If you are over the limit and drive, no matter the situation, you are taking a known risk. Plus, there is always the chance that you screw over someone else's life besides your own. But, in spite of that, it is sometimes an extreme hassle to not drink and drive for some in particular situations and many people, at least of my age, will take the risk because most people I know in those situations do not get caught or have anything bad happen to them. This is a reality and I think this should be taken into account for any anti-drunk driving law planning.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

over here, the majority of the population doesn't drink then drive. Usually the designated driver wont have any at all, or if they do, maybe just one or two light beers.

Depending on weight, sex, body fat, and how quickly they drink those 1-2 beers, they will fairly easily go over the 0.08 limit by drinking that much alcohol.

According to Wikipedia "However, it is generally accepted that the consumption from sober of one standard drink of alcohol (e.g. 14 grams (17.74 ml) ethanol content by U.S. standard) will increase the average person's BAC roughly 0.02% to 0.05% and would return to 0% about 1.5 to 3 hours later (at a dissipation rate of around 0.015% per hour)."

So one drink is probably OK, but that second drink, depending on a bunch of different variables, might put you into jail. That's where it gets into the gray area. Is a person who has had that second drink an impaired driver? Sometimes I'll feel a little "light headed" after having two drinks. Sometimes, I won't feel at all different after having two drinks. Three drinks, and I'm impaired, without a doubt.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by glatt

Depending on weight, sex, body fat, and how quickly they drink those 1-2 beers, they will fairly easily go over the 0.08 limit by drinking that much alcohol.

According to Wikipedia "However, it is generally accepted that the consumption from sober of one standard drink of alcohol (e.g. 14 grams (17.74 ml) ethanol content by U.S. standard) will increase the average person's BAC roughly 0.02% to 0.05% and would return to 0% about 1.5 to 3 hours later (at a dissipation rate of around 0.015% per hour)."

So one drink is probably OK, but that second drink, depending on a bunch of different variables, might put you into jail. That's where it gets into the gray area. Is a person who has had that second drink an impaired driver? Sometimes I'll feel a little "light headed" after having two drinks. Sometimes, I won't feel at all different after having two drinks. Three drinks, and I'm impaired, without a doubt.

Generally it is acceptable to have one standard drink per hour if you're male and one standard drink about every hour and a half if you're female.

If I were driving I might have 2 drinks if I were going to be there for a few hours, and I wouldn't be having the second if I were getting into the car within an hour, but having said all that, usually I will choose to just not drink if I'm driving. What's the point of taking the risk?

I really don't care what the circumstance is. There's no excuse for drink driving. There are always better options.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No more drinking contests and pubs must serve water.