1st or 3rd Person? - Page 2

ZenGum · 12-04-2009, 10:25 PM

3rd Person ... best delayed sock puppet action award. (I am presuming).

1st or 3rd person ... is it porn?

monster · 12-04-2009, 10:32 PM

I think the genre plays a large part in those decisions, also the projected audience. I'm involved with a publishing group which concentrates primarily on literary fiction. After the interns have read the slush pile, they send the hopefuls for us to read. There currently seems to be a fashion for male authors writing from a female POV. It almost invariably doesn't work, and as the only female on the board, it's my job to sniff it out. I'm not sure if this something that stands out more to women, though, because when there is a female author portraying a male character badly, mostly the guys don't like the manusript, but can't put their finger on it. So if your audience is male, the trans-gender thing might not matter as much?

Regards the 1st/3rd person and switching... I like third the best in the main. switching and 1st are OK, but IMO much harder to get right.... many manuscripts are rejected because they try these formats and fail so badly that not even a good editor can rescue it.

But in the end, what is right for the story depends on the story. If you have a story to tell, just write it. Don't worry about the 1st/3rd person or the gender issue -switch between them all as the mood takes you. Just write. Then go back for your first rewrite see which gender and which person has the upper hand and correct to that and see it it works....

DanaC · 12-05-2009, 04:19 AM

Strangely, i find it much easier to write from a male character's pov than a female one. I like writing male characters.

Sundae · 12-05-2009, 05:57 AM

Re gender of writer, I only tend to check the author's gender if something really jars. If I find I am reading a female author who has had a female character do/ say/ think something I find unlikely, I shrug it off and go back to the book, suspending my disbelief once again. If I find I am reading a male author, I will be forever on the lookout for more jarring moments.

In serious literature I am happy to acknowledge characters who do/ say/ think very differently than me. I'm more critical of lighter literature because it's supposed to be easily accessible.

Have just read Pride and Prejudice with Zombies. Rollicking good fun. I could swallow the zombies (!) but one thing I couldn't forgive was prior to a zombie attack, the Bennet girls were warned of the approach of a zombie troop by animals fleeing from the woods. Included in the menagerie running across the road were a skunk and a chipmunk. In rural Hertforshire. I don't think so. I won't say it ruined the book for me, but being a pedant it certainly took some of the shine off.

That's about nationality rather than gender, but I think the same applies.

Once you are writing seriously, hand over your drafts to the most pedantic person you know.
I know editors and subs should sort this sort of thing out, but I know I can name countless errors I've come across in published work.

Clodfobble · 12-05-2009, 11:58 AM

Heh... I have a friend who writes historical fantasy novels, and she does loads of research to make sure every detail is right. She has gone so far as to travel to England just to spend hours in various library archives, thumbing (wearing the special gloves, of course) through the actual written minutes of various society meetings of the 1800s, just for some tiny detail.

She has on more than one occasion fought tooth and nail with her editor--or rather, the historian(s) her editor sent the manuscript to for verification--to prove that she is, in fact, correct about when a certain word first entered the vernacular, etc.

footfootfoot · 12-05-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

...Have just read Pride and Prejudice with Zombies. Rollicking good fun. I could swallow the zombies (!) but one thing I couldn't forgive was prior to a zombie attack, the Bennet girls were warned of the approach of a zombie troop by animals fleeing from the woods. Included in the menagerie running across the road were a skunk and a chipmunk. In rural Hertforshire. I don't think so. I won't say it ruined the book for me, but being a pedant it certainly took some of the shine off...

How about a spoiler alert SG? Now the book is totally ruined for me.

lumberjim · 12-05-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juniper

LJ, YOU read Outlander?

Seriously?

Actually I think the first book was entirely in 1st person, and IIRC it wasn't till the third she started hopping into other characters' heads.

Yes, I read the whole freaking series. I just read Echo in the Bone...which came out in 09. why are you surprised? is it a chick book or something?

she's a great author, and Davina Porter is one of my favorite narrators.

i hear her voice and see this lady:

skysidhe · 12-05-2009, 09:16 PM

Time travel, the Jacobite wars,The last major stand of at Culloden, the American revolution. What's not to love.

Juniper · 12-05-2009, 09:52 PM

OMG, I love, love, love Gabaldon's books. I also just finished the last one. Are you as pissed off as I am about the ending? Talk about a cliffhanger! We have to wait THREE FRIGGIN' YEARS (or so, on average) to find out what happens to little Jemmy?!

OMG I also love, love, love Emma Thompson.

Sundae · 12-06-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

How about a spoiler alert SG? Now the book is totally ruined for me.

Shit, sorry Foot.
I guess I also shouldn't mention that Mr Darcy, Vampyre (a follow up to Pride & Prejudice by a different author) actually contains vampires either...

Despite errors, I actually prefer Pride & Prejudice & Zombies though. Just goes to show.

Cloud · 12-06-2009, 10:48 AM

3d person, definitely. I think 1st person sounds gimmicky and amateurish, usually. Really great writers can pull it off, but it's better to start out in 3d person in that semi-past tense. Either gender is fine though.

skysidhe · 12-06-2009, 12:25 PM

semi spoiler alert for The Echo and the Bone too

Juniper · 12-06-2009, 07:18 PM

Oops. But still, really vague, I think. I don't think "what happens to little Jemmy" is giving much away. I mean y'know, something wonky is always happening to the Frasers and the McKenzies.

footfootfoot · 12-07-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Shit, sorry Foot.
I guess I also shouldn't mention that Mr Darcy, Vampyre (a follow up to Pride & Prejudice by a different author) actually contains vampires either...

Despite errors, I actually prefer Pride & Prejudice & Zombies though. Just goes to show.

Well, there's always Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters I guess...

12-04-2009, 10:25 PM	#16
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	3rd Person ... best delayed sock puppet action award. (I am presuming). 1st or 3rd person ... is it porn? __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

12-04-2009, 10:32 PM	#17
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	I think the genre plays a large part in those decisions, also the projected audience. I'm involved with a publishing group which concentrates primarily on literary fiction. After the interns have read the slush pile, they send the hopefuls for us to read. There currently seems to be a fashion for male authors writing from a female POV. It almost invariably doesn't work, and as the only female on the board, it's my job to sniff it out. I'm not sure if this something that stands out more to women, though, because when there is a female author portraying a male character badly, mostly the guys don't like the manusript, but can't put their finger on it. So if your audience is male, the trans-gender thing might not matter as much? Regards the 1st/3rd person and switching... I like third the best in the main. switching and 1st are OK, but IMO much harder to get right.... many manuscripts are rejected because they try these formats and fail so badly that not even a good editor can rescue it. But in the end, what is right for the story depends on the story. If you have a story to tell, just write it. Don't worry about the 1st/3rd person or the gender issue -switch between them all as the mood takes you. Just write. Then go back for your first rewrite see which gender and which person has the upper hand and correct to that and see it it works.... __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

12-05-2009, 05:57 AM	#19
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	Re gender of writer, I only tend to check the author's gender if something really jars. If I find I am reading a female author who has had a female character do/ say/ think something I find unlikely, I shrug it off and go back to the book, suspending my disbelief once again. If I find I am reading a male author, I will be forever on the lookout for more jarring moments. In serious literature I am happy to acknowledge characters who do/ say/ think very differently than me. I'm more critical of lighter literature because it's supposed to be easily accessible. Have just read Pride and Prejudice with Zombies. Rollicking good fun. I could swallow the zombies (!) but one thing I couldn't forgive was prior to a zombie attack, the Bennet girls were warned of the approach of a zombie troop by animals fleeing from the woods. Included in the menagerie running across the road were a skunk and a chipmunk. In rural Hertforshire. I don't think so. I won't say it ruined the book for me, but being a pedant it certainly took some of the shine off. That's about nationality rather than gender, but I think the same applies. Once you are writing seriously, hand over your drafts to the most pedantic person you know. I know editors and subs should sort this sort of thing out, but I know I can name countless errors I've come across in published work. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

12-05-2009, 11:58 AM	#20
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Heh... I have a friend who writes historical fantasy novels, and she does loads of research to make sure every detail is right. She has gone so far as to travel to England just to spend hours in various library archives, thumbing (wearing the special gloves, of course) through the actual written minutes of various society meetings of the 1800s, just for some tiny detail. She has on more than one occasion fought tooth and nail with her editor--or rather, the historian(s) her editor sent the manuscript to for verification--to prove that she is, in fact, correct about when a certain word first entered the vernacular, etc. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

12-06-2009, 10:48 AM	#26
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	3d person, definitely. I think 1st person sounds gimmicky and amateurish, usually. Really great writers can pull it off, but it's better to start out in 3d person in that semi-past tense. Either gender is fine though. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!" Last edited by Cloud; 12-06-2009 at 11:28 AM.

12-05-2009, 09:16 PM	#23
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	Time travel, the Jacobite wars,The last major stand of at Culloden, the American revolution. What's not to love.

12-05-2009, 09:52 PM	#24
Juniper I know, right? Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,539	OMG, I love, love, love Gabaldon's books. I also just finished the last one. Are you as pissed off as I am about the ending? Talk about a cliffhanger! We have to wait THREE FRIGGIN' YEARS (or so, on average) to find out what happens to little Jemmy?! OMG I also love, love, love Emma Thompson.

12-06-2009, 12:25 PM	#27
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	semi spoiler alert for The Echo and the Bone too

12-06-2009, 07:18 PM	#28
Juniper I know, right? Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,539	Oops. But still, really vague, I think. I don't think "what happens to little Jemmy" is giving much away. I mean y'know, something wonky is always happening to the Frasers and the McKenzies.

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