Lenin's corpse getting retreated.

OnyxCougar · 11-10-2003, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Source
Lenin mausoleum closed till end 2003

The Lenin Mausoleum will be closed for Muscovites and guests of Russia's capital for almost two months.

Head of the Russian Federal Protection Service (FSO) press-service Sergei Devyatov said, "the mausoleum will be closed for visitors from November 10 till December 29 as maintenance works will be underway." Last time the mausoleum was closed for "maintenance works" was in spring 2002. Then special biochemical treatment necessary to maintain the condition of Lenin's embalmed body were carried out.

Last time professor Yuri Denisov-Nikolsky said that Lenin's body was "in perfect condition and if treated in a proper way it can lie in the mausoleum for at least a century." The scientist stressed that all embalming technologies as well as equipment monitoring the temperature in the premises were unique achievements of Russian science.

Lenin's body embalmed after a method devised by Vladimir P. Vorobyev (1876-1937) and Boris I. Zbarsky (1885-1954) has been lying in the mausoleum since 1924.

In March 1953, Stalin's embalmed body was placed near Lenin's. However, under Nikita Khrushchev in the small hours of November 1, 1961 Stalin's body was taken away from the mausoleum because of a decision made at the 22nd congress of the Communist Party Central Committee and was buried behind the mausoleum near the Kremlin wall.

Lenin's mausoleum was designed by architect Alexander V. Shchusev (1873-1949). The first wooden (temporary) mausoleum opened on January 27, 1924. A final stone tomb was built in October 1930. //RIA-Novosti

Elspode · 11-10-2003, 12:37 PM

I don't even want to think about what is involved in spiffing up the corpse of Lenin.

"Looks like he's about a quart low, comrade...hand me that funnel!"

FileNotFound · 11-10-2003, 02:30 PM

I wish they buried the sob already. I mean I think that today it's fairly clear that communism doesn't work, at least not for Russia. So why keep the first "true revolutionary" whose only real achievment was the destruction of Russia preserved?

perth · 11-10-2003, 02:34 PM

Tourism.

FileNotFound · 11-10-2003, 02:47 PM

perth, you really think anyone wants to see a mummy?

Most ppl that visit Russia do it to see the culture/city or cheap hot hookers.

perth · 11-10-2003, 03:00 PM

Abso-fucking-lutely. Maybe I'm deviant, but I love seeing mummies. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. There's a morbid curiousity to most people, I think. Were I to visit the area, his tomb may not be on the top of my list of things to see, but it would be up there.

I've linked it before, but what about this? One of the most popular attractions in the Czech Republic. Is it because it's rich in history? In part, yes, but there are much more historically interesting places there. Might it be because of all the dead people hanging from the walls and ceilings? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say yes.

People are fascinated with death, mostly because when you get right down to it, no one knows what happens when we die. I want to see Lenin's corpse. Not because its Lenin, but because its a corpse! Sick? Maybe. Perfectly normal? Probably. Wrong? Not in the least.

FileNotFound · 11-10-2003, 03:20 PM

Alright, THAT I would certainly visit...but not because I'm facinated with death. It just looks amazingly cool.

Personaly I find death quite dull. It brings me no emotion, no fear, no sadness. Maybe because I accept that we'll all die and because I being an atheist do not believe in anything "spiritual" regarding death. To me it's all just *fade to black*

As far as seeing mummies, yes of course mummies are cool...for the first few times you see them. And these first few times can probably happen at your local museum. Seeing a mummy will become very routine very soon. The significance of Lenin is that he's a "famous" mummy.

The point is: He shouldn't be.

He should be buried along with all his all the BS that he created and the day of Revolution (Nov 7th) should be a dame of shame and regret not a holiday as it is today. (It was renamed to something idiotic like day of "Union and Agreement". Maybe Day of Destruction and Slaughter of the Innocent didn't have that ring to it..)

Yeah I was Russian...

perth · 11-10-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FileNotFound
Alright, THAT I would certainly visit...but not because I'm facinated with death. It just looks amazingly cool.

Well, that and the dead people.

I understand there's more symbolism in it to some people than in others, and I respect that. Lenin's corpse is, to me, a corpse. To you, it probably means something more. It makes sense that you might find it offensive. Please don't take my indifference as an insult, it's just different life experiences.

FileNotFound · 11-10-2003, 03:45 PM

It takes far more than indifference to insult me.

Yes I do consider it to be more than a corpse. But then thats how it's meant to be considered isn't it?

If it was just a corpse you'd dig a hole and toss it in there, maybe stick a cross on top if you were feeling religious or generous.

If it was just a corpse you won't build a tomb out of red marble in the center square of the capital and you wouldn't have guards posted at it 24/7 would you? No it's meant to be far more than a corpse. It's displayed as a symbol of communism and preserving Lenin is attempting to preserve the biggest symbol of communism ever.

Does it bring in tourism? Sure. But I don't see it as justification. I mean it'd be the same if Germany kept Hitlers body in a glorified tomb (that certainly would get some tourism). Before anyone says that Hitler was a monster unlike Lenin, I'd say that communism managed to get a far far longer kill list than nazism.

Uryoces · 11-10-2003, 04:04 PM

I would think that maybe they would finally cremate him, and display his urn and a death mask. Kind of Abraham Lincoln-esqe. As I understood it, Stalin wanted Lenin's body preserved so that everyone fully understood that he was dead, and that Stalin was in charge. "Lenin" wouldn't reappear Barbarosa-like and call him out.

I wouldn't be surprised if they just unceremoniously dumped Stalin's body in a conrete hollow and walled it up.

perth · 11-10-2003, 04:35 PM

I suspect that given a few generations, any symbolic significance it has will be held by a small but vocal minority. Using old Adolf as an example, most everyone agrees he was a horrible asshole (putting it mildly) best forgotten in the annals of history. Theres a loud, annoying few who think he was a hero or something, and there always will be. You can't really do much about that. Point is, if you want something done now, then pursue that goal. If not, take comfort in the fact that it won't be long before all thats left is the small, annoying, but ultimately ineffective minority.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-10-2003, 07:02 PM

Oh sure, I spend years building germany into a financial success and military powerhouse. Then I start one little world war and kill a few million people and they call me a horrible asshole. Feh.

FileNotFound · 11-11-2003, 10:04 AM

The war was not the reason Hitler was hated. War seems natural to human history, war is started by the good and bad alike.

Yet only the trully evil kill their own citizens..as was done by nazies and communists alike.

hot_pastrami · 11-11-2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by perth
...most everyone agrees he was a horrible asshole (putting it mildly) best forgotten in the annals of history.

Except that those who forget history are doomed to repeat it, as they say. Of course, many who actually remember history seem doomed to repeat it, so I guess that's a non-point. I'm full of those.

11-11-2003, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by perth
Using old Adolf as an example, most everyone agrees he was a horrible asshole (putting it mildly)

No no no. Putting it mildly would be saying "Hitler had a kind of spotty human rights record."

11-10-2003, 12:37 PM	#2
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I don't even want to think about what is involved in spiffing up the corpse of Lenin. "Looks like he's about a quart low, comrade...hand me that funnel!" __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

11-10-2003, 04:04 PM	#10
Uryoces 2nd Covenant, yo Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pugetropolis Posts: 583	I would think that maybe they would finally cremate him, and display his urn and a death mask. Kind of Abraham Lincoln-esqe. As I understood it, Stalin wanted Lenin's body preserved so that everyone fully understood that he was dead, and that Stalin was in charge. "Lenin" wouldn't reappear Barbarosa-like and call him out. I wouldn't be surprised if they just unceremoniously dumped Stalin's body in a conrete hollow and walled it up. __________________ The party's over ... the drink ... and the luck ... ran out.

11-10-2003, 07:02 PM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Oh sure, I spend years building germany into a financial success and military powerhouse. Then I start one little world war and kill a few million people and they call me a horrible asshole. Feh. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

11-10-2003, 02:30 PM	#3
FileNotFound Intouch with his inner sheep rider. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 603	I wish they buried the sob already. I mean I think that today it's fairly clear that communism doesn't work, at least not for Russia. So why keep the first "true revolutionary" whose only real achievment was the destruction of Russia preserved?

11-10-2003, 02:34 PM	#4
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	Tourism.

11-10-2003, 02:47 PM	#5
FileNotFound Intouch with his inner sheep rider. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 603	perth, you really think anyone wants to see a mummy? Most ppl that visit Russia do it to see the culture/city or cheap hot hookers.

11-10-2003, 03:00 PM	#6
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	Abso-fucking-lutely. Maybe I'm deviant, but I love seeing mummies. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. There's a morbid curiousity to most people, I think. Were I to visit the area, his tomb may not be on the top of my list of things to see, but it would be up there. I've linked it before, but what about this? One of the most popular attractions in the Czech Republic. Is it because it's rich in history? In part, yes, but there are much more historically interesting places there. Might it be because of all the dead people hanging from the walls and ceilings? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say yes. People are fascinated with death, mostly because when you get right down to it, no one knows what happens when we die. I want to see Lenin's corpse. Not because its Lenin, but because its a corpse! Sick? Maybe. Perfectly normal? Probably. Wrong? Not in the least.

11-10-2003, 03:20 PM	#7
FileNotFound Intouch with his inner sheep rider. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 603	Alright, THAT I would certainly visit...but not because I'm facinated with death. It just looks amazingly cool. Personaly I find death quite dull. It brings me no emotion, no fear, no sadness. Maybe because I accept that we'll all die and because I being an atheist do not believe in anything "spiritual" regarding death. To me it's all just fade to black As far as seeing mummies, yes of course mummies are cool...for the first few times you see them. And these first few times can probably happen at your local museum. Seeing a mummy will become very routine very soon. The significance of Lenin is that he's a "famous" mummy. The point is: He shouldn't be. He should be buried along with all his all the BS that he created and the day of Revolution (Nov 7th) should be a dame of shame and regret not a holiday as it is today. (It was renamed to something idiotic like day of "Union and Agreement". Maybe Day of Destruction and Slaughter of the Innocent didn't have that ring to it..) Yeah I was Russian...

11-10-2003, 03:45 PM	#9
FileNotFound Intouch with his inner sheep rider. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 603	It takes far more than indifference to insult me. Yes I do consider it to be more than a corpse. But then thats how it's meant to be considered isn't it? If it was just a corpse you'd dig a hole and toss it in there, maybe stick a cross on top if you were feeling religious or generous. If it was just a corpse you won't build a tomb out of red marble in the center square of the capital and you wouldn't have guards posted at it 24/7 would you? No it's meant to be far more than a corpse. It's displayed as a symbol of communism and preserving Lenin is attempting to preserve the biggest symbol of communism ever. Does it bring in tourism? Sure. But I don't see it as justification. I mean it'd be the same if Germany kept Hitlers body in a glorified tomb (that certainly would get some tourism). Before anyone says that Hitler was a monster unlike Lenin, I'd say that communism managed to get a far far longer kill list than nazism.

11-10-2003, 04:35 PM	#11
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	I suspect that given a few generations, any symbolic significance it has will be held by a small but vocal minority. Using old Adolf as an example, most everyone agrees he was a horrible asshole (putting it mildly) best forgotten in the annals of history. Theres a loud, annoying few who think he was a hero or something, and there always will be. You can't really do much about that. Point is, if you want something done now, then pursue that goal. If not, take comfort in the fact that it won't be long before all thats left is the small, annoying, but ultimately ineffective minority.

11-11-2003, 10:04 AM	#13
FileNotFound Intouch with his inner sheep rider. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 603	The war was not the reason Hitler was hated. War seems natural to human history, war is started by the good and bad alike. Yet only the trully evil kill their own citizens..as was done by nazies and communists alike.

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