The Obamanation

[Redux]

Originally Posted by classicman

....There is no way that paint & rumblestrips can help these places. A far more comprehensive plan was needed to stimulate these industries.

I dont think it was ever the intent of the stimulus program to save dying factories that cant compete in the global economy...but to stimulate the replacing of those jobs and retooling of those industries with jobs in new technologies and growth industries...but that takes more than 6 months.

The short-term "shovel ready" paint and rumble strip jobs, as well as the public sector jobs (police, teachers, etc) that may have been saved accomplished much of what was expected...to keep people employed and to keep money flowing in the economy.

Teachers or painters or rumble strip layers who are employed are likely to spend money that they would not spend if unemployed.....which helped keep other people employed and helped keep the economy from tanking completely. Many (most?) economists have said that the stimulus program (and the TARP) contributed to ending the recession. How much it contributed is subject to differences of opinion.

More than half of the stimulus "jobs" funds is to start the process of restructuring the economy with jobs in alternative energy, technology (eg building a broadband infrastructure) and other emerging or growth industries. And most of these funds are still in the process of being awarded. That is why it was envisioned as a 18-24 month economic stimulus program.

IMO, that is comprehensive....a mix of quick fixes and longer-term (but still with a sense of urgency) economic restructuring.

How else would you have made it more comprehensive?

added:
For the record, I dont think it was a great plan.

I do think it was a necessary plan and didnt hear any better options.

[classicman]

I personally don't have a better plan. That's one reason why I'm not an elected official. I hear about these police and teachers that were kept on through the implementation of the stimulus money, but now thats gone and the states are going to have to come up with more revenue to maintain their employ. Where is that money coming from. Did this just "stop the bleeding' for awhile?

[Redux]

Originally Posted by classicman

I personally don't have a better plan. That's one reason why I'm not an elected official.

The problem is that those elected officials who can offer alternatives have not. IMO, it is the belief of many of those that it is a better political strategy to just say "NO" rather than to offer substantive policy alternatives.

I hear about these police and teachers that were kept on through the implementation of the stimulus money, but now thats gone and the states are going to have to come up with more revenue to maintain their employ. Where is that money coming from. Did this just "stop the bleeding' for awhile?

Right. The state stabilization funds in the stimulus bill is a short-term fix. The intent is to "stop the bleeding" while the economy was tanking and states budgets were facing shortfalls not previously experienced in any recent years.

The hope is that with a more stable economy again..and an economy now showing positive GDP growth again (for the first time in 2 years) ...state budget revenues will also stabilize and grow.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

The hope is that ...

Ahhh - Hope. Well lets all "hope" that hope gets answered.

[Shawnee123]

Hope, borne of some kind of fucking action, is better than the speedy spiral into the deep dark abyss. Jebus H Cripes.

Man you conservatives are crotchety pessimistics. Where's that thread?

[classicman]

I wasn't mocking m'dear. Now stop it. Was just thinking what could happen if that "hope" of recovery or whatever doesn't happen.

[Shawnee123]

Well don't think that! The power of positive thinking! Or something.

just what makes that little old ant
think he can move a rubber tree plant?
everyone knows an ant can't move a rubber tree plant
but he's got high hopes, he's got high hopes
high apple pie in the sky hopes

Everybody sing!

[classicman]

/snidepessimist/Ohhh I get it now.
We can just hope the problems away. /snidepessimist/ (insert smilie here)


btw - Shouldn't that be in the SHOUT SHOUT thread?

and I sang that in my head as I read it - very funny shaw

[Shawnee123]

It always reminds me of Laverne and Shirley. Haggis!

[ZenGum]

Actually, hope and fear are the two main forces at play in the economy.

If we hope that it will get better, we will spend money, hoping we will get some more later, and the movement of that money is economic activity. Things get better (if everyone is doing this).

If we fear that thigns will get worse, we hoard money, and the stationariness of that money is economic stagnation, and things will get worse.

These are self-fulfilling expectations. Hope is in fact the cure.

This is what The Man meant when he declared "We have nothing to fear but fear itself!"

[xoxoxoBruce]

It's been a year, what's he done?

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Actually, hope and fear are the two main forces at play in the economy.

If we hope that it will get better, we will spend money, hoping we will get some more later, and the movement of that money is economic activity. Things get better (if everyone is doing this).

If we fear that thigns will get worse, we hoard money, and the stationariness of that money is economic stagnation, and things will get worse.

These are self-fulfilling expectations. Hope is in fact the cure.

This is what The Man meant when he declared "We have nothing to fear but fear itself!"

Yes. Living in fear got old. I'll take hope.

Funny that there are actually people on this planet who make me look like an optimist.

Great article, Bruce.

[classicman]

Two weeks after that, Obama signed the stimulus bill — a $787 billion accomplishment.

Ten days after that, Obama formally announced America's withdrawal from Iraq.

In June, Obama reset the tone of our relations with the entire Arab world with a single speech...

Also in June, Obama unveiled the "Cash for Clunkers" program, a "socialist" giveaway that reanimated the corpse of our car industry

Wait ... what? Not so fast -

He signed the stimulus bill. ok, not sure how successful it is yet though. The jobs "saved or created" is a pretty fuzzy issue. Time will tell what type of accomplishment this actually was after the states have to start paying without the federal money.

Announced the withdrawal from Iraq. Not exactly the timeframe he promised pre-election, but good nonetheless.

Yup -

Ford did well, but the other two that took the bailout money... Link
specifically this part - "After receiving $12.5 billion in two TARP capital injections, GMAC now seeks several billion dollars more. This would actually be the fourth bailout if you count the $900 million equity interest Treasury received when it converted a loan to GM into a GMAC investment.

No, sorry, this would be the fifth bailout if you count the $7.4 billion in FDIC-guaranteed debt that GMAC has been allowed to issue to obtain dirt-cheap financing. Should we count GMAC's use of the government's Term Asset-backed Lending Facility (TALF) as bailout number six? And did we mention that GMAC can also gather cheap capital via FDIC-insured deposits through its ownership of Ally Bank?

Despite all of this assistance, GMAC is back at the trough seeking more help to finance purchases from Obama Motors. That's because, unlike every other big TARP recipient that failed its government "stress test" and was ordered to raise more capital, GMAC could find no takers in the private market. No one seems to want to own GMAC's equity, and investors aren't too enthused about the company's bonds, either."

Not fear or pessimism. Simple facts. Hope is a very powerful force, so much so that it can also be blinding.

[Redux]

Originally Posted by classicman

.....Not fear or pessimism. Simple facts. Hope is a very powerful force, so much so that it can also be blinding.

I should have more correctly said it is my "expectation" rather than "hope" that the economy will rebound (#948) ...and, with the exception of jobs, every indicator would suggest that rebounding has begun.

The question is how much of that is attributable to ARRA and TARP. To discount it completely as as disingenuous as giving those programs all the credit for ending the recession.

As to "simple facts"...IMO, it is simplistic to look at selected facts in a vacuum and that can be blinding as well, particularly if one looks with a predisposed opinion.

In the case of GM, what would have happened w/o the bailout? We can start with at least another 1/2 million jobs lost...then add the negative trickle down effect.

[classicman]

Would those jobs really be lost? How many other profitable automakers would have hired at least some of those workers? How many properly run companies would have bought or leased some of the facilities? There are as many unknowns there as there are knowns.
You cannot state that another 500,000 jobs would be lost and leave it at that. That too is as simplistic as my statement. Take into account the BILLIONS that company was given as a bailout and how much potential good that could have done as well as helped innovation in other areas. Not that anyone suggested that or it would have happened, but there were other options. Heck we still don't know if those jobs aren't going to be lost anyway. We may have just thrown away billions and just prolonged the problem. GM still sucks and so does Chrysler.