Oops. We overshot Minneapolis - by 150 miles - Page 2

Cloud · 10-27-2009, 08:50 PM

I get what you're saying; if, say they were in the middle of a 4 hour flight. but they were too close to their intended destination for their attention to wander

wolf · 10-27-2009, 08:55 PM

I thought that pilots had to keep monitoring the condition of the aircraft, checking their position, airspeed, and altitude both by the instrumentation and by good old fashioned seat of the pants reckoning throughout the flight regardless of what the autopilot was told to do. Flying is all about redundancies for the redundancies.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-27-2009, 10:16 PM

Those system checks are computerized and constantly monitored, in auto-pilot or not. When an alarm goes off they have a bigass book to look up what to do about it, if they don't know. There are hundreds of things that can set off an alarm, some serious, many not so much, but should be logged to check at the next stop or next scheduled service.

Pie · 10-27-2009, 10:29 PM

"I spy, with my little eye, something that begins with 's'."

"Sky".

TheMercenary · 10-27-2009, 10:37 PM

They must have had head phones on their laptops playing some mean online games and lost track of time... and space. Idiots.

Still some pretty conflicting info coming out about what really went on in the COCKpit. The only thing not conflicting is that they are now DNIF.

tw · 10-27-2009, 10:51 PM

This overflight is minor compared to another event the same week by the same airline:
Washington subway crash

classicman · 10-28-2009, 07:51 AM

Aren't they one and the same incident?

Undertoad · 10-28-2009, 08:16 AM

Yes but the one is minor.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-28-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

Aren't they one and the same incident?

No, the other is the landing on the taxiway, instead of the runway, in Rio.

ZenGum · 10-28-2009, 07:14 PM

Just thinking about this.

The pilots seem to be coming up with implausible stories to avoid admitting they were asleep.

I don't care, and in fact the excuses seem worse to me than merely sleeping.

How could you spend an hour and twenty minutes (possibly more - that is just the "overshoot" time - had they been asleep earlier?) discussing rostering and checking stuff on computers, and not once come back to the matter at hand and check where you were. If that is true it scares me more than two tired pilots on long shifts just dozing off.

But regardless, I don't really care if they were asleep, arguing, or gang-banging the flight attendants, they were in charge of a plane full of people and they weren't paying proper attention to what they were supposed to be doing. These excuses aren't worth a damn, even if they are true.

classicman · 10-28-2009, 09:24 PM

I'm still waiting to hear how this was Bush's fault . . .

ZenGum · 10-28-2009, 09:49 PM

Well after 9/11 pilots were forced to spend long hours waiting for clearance and security checks which makes them tired. And the new security checks deterred people from becoming pilots, leading to overwork and further fatigue. Then, by maintaining the War on Drugs he deprived them of cocaine and speed which would have prevented this whole thing.

Really, Classic, it isn't that hard. Everything is Bush's fault.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-29-2009, 02:13 AM

No, it's Reagan's fault... air traffic controllers.

tw · 10-29-2009, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Just thinking about this.
How could you spend an hour and twenty minutes (possibly more - that is just the "overshoot" time - had they been asleep earlier?)

This was not two pilots who always flew together. Pilots and co-pilots constantly fly with different partners. These two were probably doing what was routine when any other NW pilot was their partner. Only these two got caught in a mistake.

Apparently it is routine for pilots to take short naps, read a book, work on a laptop, etc. since everything is automated and since they are now locked up in a compartment without any other distractions.

dar512 · 11-04-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

I'm still waiting to hear how this was Bush's fault . . .

He was at the controls. It was a bush pilot.

10-27-2009, 08:50 PM	#16
Cloud Evil Mignonette Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA MTZ (GMT-7) Posts: 7,676	I get what you're saying; if, say they were in the middle of a 4 hour flight. but they were too close to their intended destination for their attention to wander __________________ The Owl and the Pussycat. Yeah, they went to sea, and there were pussies involved. Look it up!

10-27-2009, 08:55 PM	#17
wolf The other bright meat Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 17,854	I thought that pilots had to keep monitoring the condition of the aircraft, checking their position, airspeed, and altitude both by the instrumentation and by good old fashioned seat of the pants reckoning throughout the flight regardless of what the autopilot was told to do. Flying is all about redundancies for the redundancies. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

10-27-2009, 10:16 PM	#18
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 36,410	Those system checks are computerized and constantly monitored, in auto-pilot or not. When an alarm goes off they have a bigass book to look up what to do about it, if they don't know. There are hundreds of things that can set off an alarm, some serious, many not so much, but should be logged to check at the next stop or next scheduled service. __________________ The Truth and Robert Shapiro Shall Set You Free.

10-27-2009, 10:29 PM	#19
Pie black hole of brilliance Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Columbia, MD Posts: 4,805	"I spy, with my little eye, something that begins with 's'." "Sky". __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

10-27-2009, 10:37 PM	#20
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 16,985	They must have had head phones on their laptops playing some mean online games and lost track of time... and space. Idiots. Still some pretty conflicting info coming out about what really went on in the COCKpit. The only thing not conflicting is that they are now DNIF. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knItRruwXEA

10-27-2009, 10:51 PM	#21
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 7,206	This overflight is minor compared to another event the same week by the same airline: Washington subway crash

10-28-2009, 07:51 AM	#22
classicman 50/50/90 Ruler Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 14,220	Aren't they one and the same incident? __________________ Evidence that contradicts the ruling belief system is held to extraordinary standards, while evidence that entrenches it is uncritically accepted. -Carl Sagan Support America - Support Arizona

10-28-2009, 08:16 AM	#23
Undertoad Sorry for my long posts Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Valley Forge Natl Park Posts: 20,297	Yes but the one is minor.

10-28-2009, 07:14 PM	#25
ZenGum Has OCD and ADD; has OCD and hey look at the birdy! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 6,699	Just thinking about this. The pilots seem to be coming up with implausible stories to avoid admitting they were asleep. I don't care, and in fact the excuses seem worse to me than merely sleeping. How could you spend an hour and twenty minutes (possibly more - that is just the "overshoot" time - had they been asleep earlier?) discussing rostering and checking stuff on computers, and not once come back to the matter at hand and check where you were. If that is true it scares me more than two tired pilots on long shifts just dozing off. But regardless, I don't really care if they were asleep, arguing, or gang-banging the flight attendants, they were in charge of a plane full of people and they weren't paying proper attention to what they were supposed to be doing. These excuses aren't worth a damn, even if they are true. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

10-28-2009, 09:24 PM	#26
classicman 50/50/90 Ruler Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 14,220	I'm still waiting to hear how this was Bush's fault . . . __________________ Evidence that contradicts the ruling belief system is held to extraordinary standards, while evidence that entrenches it is uncritically accepted. -Carl Sagan Support America - Support Arizona

10-28-2009, 09:49 PM	#27
ZenGum Has OCD and ADD; has OCD and hey look at the birdy! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 6,699	Well after 9/11 pilots were forced to spend long hours waiting for clearance and security checks which makes them tired. And the new security checks deterred people from becoming pilots, leading to overwork and further fatigue. Then, by maintaining the War on Drugs he deprived them of cocaine and speed which would have prevented this whole thing. Really, Classic, it isn't that hard. Everything is Bush's fault. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

10-29-2009, 02:13 AM	#28
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 36,410	No, it's Reagan's fault... air traffic controllers. __________________ The Truth and Robert Shapiro Shall Set You Free.

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