Global warming?

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by classicman

I'd guess there are some pics just like them somewhere from the U.S.

Can you suggest where I would look to find it? So far I've tried some notorious industrial shitholes: Gary, IN, Newark, NJ, and East Houston to Galveston TX, and there is nothing resembling Ma'anshan.

Another thing I notice in the satellite images is the color of the water. The satellites aren't picking up a true color, I think. But everywhere there's water, and humans, the water becomes discolored with algae and runoff and sewage discharge and stuff.

Eastern China:



Eastern US at the same zoom:



You can find the discoloration if you zoom in (but that's the point, Eastern CN is actually polluting a large section of the Pacific Ocean, while Boston can only manage to pollute the bay):



The worst I can find is Lake Erie, where the color seems to match the eastern CN a bit, around Toledo. Here it is at the same zoom as the Eastern CN:

Originally Posted by Redux

And, IMO, we should lead by example.

We are.

Or we can continue to pass the buck to China, and perhaps, over the longer term, let China becoming more of an innovator of cleaner, more efficient energy technologies and reap the benefits worldwide.

Funny thing about innovation... the Chinese will soon have the safest, most innovative nuclear power facilities in the world.

But the two major players building them are the US company Westinghouse and the French company Areva. Due to regulations the US hasn't built a plant in 30 years, but GE and Westinghouse are still major players.

(The economy for nuclear changed slightly under the B*sh administration when the B*sh DOE offered grants to recover high initial costs to build a nuke plant. They threw money at the problem, and several new plants will be built soon. But that's a temporary and expensive fix.)

Originally Posted by Undertoad

We are.


Funny thing about innovation... the Chinese will soon have the safest, most innovative nuclear power facilities in the world.

But the two major players building them are the US company Westinghouse and the French company Areva. Due to regulations the US hasn't built a plant in 30 years, but GE and Westinghouse are still major players.

(The economy for nuclear changed slightly under the B*sh administration when the B*sh DOE offered grants to recover high initial costs to build a nuke plant. They threw money at the problem, and several new plants will be built soon. But that's a temporary and expensive fix.)

We are?

Then why arent our auto emissions standards as tough as China's? or our regulations for new coal-fired power plants?

I'm not suggesting that China is doing a better job than the US. Rather, than China is beginning to act in a reasonable manner and that it is a convenient political cop out when some of those opposed to a comprehensive, yet reasonable, US emission control regulatory program take the position that the US should not act because China is the major polluter.

I also think nuclear power should be in the mix but not at the expense of developing cleaner and renewable energy resources. And it should also regulated more than the Bush admin proposed.

BTW, it was a Bush OMB study in 2003 that found that the benefits of environmental (and other) regulations were 5 to 7 times greater than costs.:

OMB reviewed 107 major Federal rulemakings finalized over the previous ten years (October 1, 1992 to September 30, 2002). The estimated total annual quantified benefits of these rules range from $146 billion to $230 billion, while the estimated total annual quantified costs range from $36 billion to $42 billion. The majority of the quantified benefits are attributable to a handful of clean-air rules issued by EPA pursuant to the 1990 amendments to the Clean Air Act. (Chapter I)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/infore..._final_rpt.pdf

But of course, the Bush EPA, DOE......ignored this OMB study in pursuit of a policy of voluntary industry self-regulation.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

But the two major players building them are the US company Westinghouse and the French company Areva.

The people that ran Westinghouse decided the real money was in broadcasting/entertainment, so they merged Group W with CBS, then merged with Viacom.
But first they sold the appliance line to White, the Steam Turbine and Generator Divisions to Siemens AG, and the Nuclear Division to Toshiba Corporation.

But yes it's here, an American product, using American developed technology. It's just greedy American management was more interested in chasing the glamor and bucks.