The Office and the Man

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

...which resulted in actions the illegal Terrorist Surveillance Program that circumvented FISA requirements and violated basic Constitutional protections...

You mean the same one the Demoncrats repeatedly approved after years of bitching about it? Yea, they approved it on the second go round.

You can't make excuses for things that Bush2 did and were such an abonimation and now Obama gets some kind of a pass on it. The double standards abound. I am sure they will continue to mount until eventually you will see that the Demoncrats and Republickins are not much different from one another.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

You mean the same one the Demoncrats repeatedly approved after years of bitching about it? Yea, they approved it on the second go round.

WTF are you talking about?

The new FISA legislation was enacted after the Terrorist Surveillance Program was exposed as being illegal for warrantless wiretaps of US citizens within the US with virtually no oversight. It included explicit checks on who (and how) warranteless wiretaps can be used as well as greater judicial review and reporting by the FISA court of warrantless wiretap requests by the WH and greater oversight by Congress so that illegal and secret actions like those taken by Bush could not be repeated.

And yes, Obama voted for it (an example of my "Bush lite" reference).

I still would have voted against it...I dont think the privacy protections go far enough and it still granted immunity to the telecomms for their past actions and allows them to continue to do so at the request of the WH based solely on the word of the DoJ that the actions would be legal.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

WTF are you talking about?

You know exactly what I am talking about. Don't act like you don't know. The Demoncratically controlled house approved the action after bitching about how bad it was for years by approving Patriot Act 2 and the FISA Bill. Obama voted along with all Republicans for cloture.

Obama's vote in favor of cloture, in particular, cemented the complete betrayal of the commitment he made back in October when seeking the Democratic nomination. Back then, Obama's spokesman -- in response to demands for a clear statement of Obama's views on the spying controversy after he had previously given a vague and noncommittal statement -- issued this emphatic vow:

"To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."

But the bill today does include retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies. Nonetheless, Obama voted for cloture on the bill -- the exact opposition of supporting a filibuster -- and then voted for the bill itself. A more complete abandonment of an unambiguous campaign promise is difficult to imagine.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa.../09/fisa_vote/

The bitch about the betrayal of the Dems and what it means to live with their vote.:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...isa/index.html

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

You know exactly what I am talking about. Don't act like you don't know. The Demoncratically controlled house approved the action after bitching about how bad it was for years by approving Patriot Act 2 and the FISA Bill. Obama voted along with all Republicans for cloture.

In fact, less than half of the Democrats voted for the FISA amendments, including Obama. I would not have.

I know exactly what I am talking about....as bad as I thought the bill was, at least it included the provisions that I noted that will prevent Obama or any future president from acting unilaterally, outside of the FISA Court and Congressional oversight, on warrantless wiretaps in the manner that Bush did.

Damn...read the bill before making such sweeping conclusions and generalizations.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

In fact, less than half of the Democrats voted for the FISA amendments, including Obama. I would not have.

I know exactly what I am talking about....as bad as I thought the bill was, at least it included the provisions that I noted that will prevent Obama or any future president from acting unilaterally, outside of the FISA Court and Congressional oversight, on warrantless wiretaps in the manner that Bush did.

Damn...read the bill before making such sweeping conclusions and generalizations.

I have read it. The point is that you have made sweeping generalizations about what Bush did for 8 years and in fact the Dems, including Obama, have actually continued and retained many of the same provisions of privacy invasion in their actions on the hill by re-authorizing PA2, The new FISA Bill, and now with a continuation of the abuse of presidential signing statements. You can't hide behind this duplicity. Stop making excuses for the parallels.