Now that's just cheeky...

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Yeah, it is tough. But I'll tell ya, the people doing the complaining about Guantànamo incessantly protest at America's doing anything that is likely to defeat fascism and our enemies. This is of course blatant totalitarian-sympathizing, and it is either stupid or evil or both.

The proper attitude towards anything less than a democracy is to extinguish it. These complainers do not have the proper anti-tyrannical attitude and thus are suspect of being closet totalitarians themselves.

Their view of it is tainted.

The moral choice is to break oppression by any means, and those people are not capable of choosing the moral way.

That is why I oppose them. They are bad and they are stupid, and I am neither.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

POWs, darling. Nobody except North Vietnam tries charging POWs with crimes, and we all know this was evidence of how bad North Vietnam sucked. These people practiced war against us, and were captured. End of story, really. Nothing illegal about caging prisoners of war, and it doesn't need to be Congressionally declared to be a perfectly satisfactory war from the lawbook point of view.

Seriously, the notion of criminalizing "practicing foreign policy while Republican" blends stupidity with insanity, frosted with a large dose of totalitarian-sympathizing, which is the abiding characteristic of the moronic. The smart people want the Taliban and other Islamofascists extinct and sterile. And they don't think we'd ever compromise our national virtue getting 'em that way.

If they are guilty of a crime, then they should be charged and tried. Otherwise they need to be let go.

And ftr, I want the Taliban and al qaeda extinct and/or sterile too. I want to do it the right way though, and not make even MORE enemies while doing it. After 911, we had most of the world behind us. We fucked that up by attacking Iraq, which btw, took our eyes OFF of the Taliban and al qaeda, and allowed them to become even more strong, and now they are a bigger threat than ever. All because of our own stupidity (well, our leaders anyway).

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Yeah, it is tough. But I'll tell ya, the people doing the complaining about Guantànamo incessantly protest at America's doing anything that is likely to defeat fascism and our enemies. This is of course blatant totalitarian-sympathizing, and it is either stupid or evil or both.

The proper attitude towards anything less than a democracy is to extinguish it. These complainers do not have the proper anti-tyrannical attitude and thus are suspect of being closet totalitarians themselves.

Their view of it is tainted.

The moral choice is to break oppression by any means, and those people are not capable of choosing the moral way.

That is why I oppose them. They are bad and they are stupid, and I am neither.

And how is that not just another form of oppression and totalitarianism? It is just another form of tyranny to run around the globe and occupy countries and force our views of government on them.

[DanaC]

The proper attitude towards anything less than a democracy is to extinguish it. These complainers do not have the proper anti-tyrannical attitude and thus are suspect of being closet totalitarians themselves.

That's worthy of the Hall of Fame.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

If they are guilty of a crime, then they should be charged and tried. Otherwise they need to be let go.

That's got nothing to do with the condition of being captured in a war and made a POW. It's a much more humane sort of thing to do than some old-time alternative practices, viz., "taken to the rear, and piked." The Left refuses to understand this very simple thing, which in turn suggests their minds are too vestigial to understand anything rightly. With such imbeciles I have nothing to do, and recommend the same to you. The Left is always so fucking hostile to the idea that Democracy might win out over Tyranny.

And ftr, I want the Taliban and al qaeda extinct and/or sterile too. I want to do it the right way though, and not make even MORE enemies while doing it.

Oh, do you really? Why don't you sound very much like me then? And what is "the right way?" Might it not be the very strategy we are pursuing at present, and which the Democrats, after years of footdragging, now own and have a responsibility to do well at, for the sake of both America and all of mankind? (If we win, the world will prosper. Not so if they do, as you can tell from their manifestoes, which they've been very public with.) Study up on the right way to fight an insurgency. The darn things always take quite a while to dry up, as they require causing a systemic shift in public opinion in the affected sector away from the insurgents. I've never heard of something like that happening overnight.

"Even more enemies?" I'd advise not worrying about that, for the simple reason that it won't make any visible difference to us how much more annoyed our enemies get at us -- just for being us, all dynamic, successful, rich, inventive and generally just plain happier. We've got such a good thing going we can spread it around. They profess to think that'll kill off their culture. They don't yet know that cultures are a lot tougher than that. The only big cultural sea-change I expect is that tribal-only consciousness will fade and national consciousness will take its place, as it had to with us.

There is also the point that our enemies are not growing more numerous. The well informed, those enjoying greater global connectivity than our active foes do, aren't getting killing mad at America for getting involved cleaning up some witches' brews in a couple parts of the Muslim world... which were giving trouble to other parts of the Muslim world.

After 911, we had most of the world behind us. We fucked that up by attacking Iraq, which btw, took our eyes OFF of the Taliban and al qaeda, and allowed them to become even more strong, and now they are a bigger threat than ever. All because of our own stupidity (well, our leaders anyway).

Are they indeed "even more strong?" Watching the fight, I don't see that. I do see we are keeping them having to fight for their lives week in and week out -- and losing often enough. The practitioners of antiglobalism and anti-Americanism aren't getting a lot of traction. Oh, they'll give trouble. Then we kill them. That's the way it is, and I don't see them undeserving of such a fate, do you?

No one in opposition to the Bush Administration's campaign against the fascistic antiglobalist abusers of women EVER came up with the scintilla of a strategy of how to win the GWOT better than Bush could. Not one single word of strategy or effort, nothing whatsoever to extend democracy into places that lacked it and suffered perennially. Clearly, these people have zero interest in democracy and don't want ever to have any. I oppose them, as any person of humanity would. They are wannabe tyrants, brainless wisdomless monsters. They are the Left.

We certainly didn't take our eyes off the Taliban, though they did manage to find a hidey hole and regroup some. Are they any nearer to taking Afghanistan back than they were? I don't see them managing that, either. And continuing to kill al-Q men doesn't sound like ignoring them either, does it?

There are people who would like you to believe what you wrote, sugarpop -- that America and globalism may be defeated, and poverty and oppression both preserved and increased. These people are of the Left, and they are the most racist, unenlightened bastards you ever saw under their surface appearance. I am not one of those people. The conservatives, like me, want the prosperity and the not-overweening government to be the global norm, and want it to be spread around.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by DanaC

That's worthy of the Hall of Fame.

Of course it is. It's an anti-leftist, anti-fascist point of view. The two are one, as thoughtful students of both can tell you. It's all about the breaking of tyranny, to which action you object, DanaC. Perhaps you are morally bankrupt after all?

[DanaC]

So I'm a racist now? lol. Because I am of the left I am a racist unenlightened bastard?

I assure you my parentage was never in question. And I am morally bankrupt. But only in your moral currency which is valueless to me anyway:P

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

And how is that not just another form of oppression and totalitarianism? It is just another form of tyranny to run around the globe and occupy countries and force our views of government on them.

Making liberty, in the face of anyone, regardless, who thinks people shouldn't have as much liberty as we do, is not an act of oppression. It is not an act of oppression to deny somebody the chance to do some oppressing himself.

People in whom "white liberal guilt" is absent can figure this out without being told. Only the mistakenly guiltridden, with their pro-fascist values, can mistake removing undemocracy and promoting genuine democracy for an oppression or tyranny.

White liberal guilt is a fascist-loving way to be, and it's horribly cowardly too. I do not love fascism/communism, and thus I have no guilt, nor any patience with those who do. You're in chains! Strike them off!

Our views of government are the human views of government. Most other modes are just aggrandized street-gang stuff -- exhibitions of what a highly motivated sociopath could achieve in the undemocratic Third World.

Why do you suppose it is our government that works, while so many others seem all about abusing somebody or are dysfunctional and failing? Are we Americans so uniquely suited to republican democracy that it cannot work anywhere else on the globe? I don't believe so, and for two examples I name Japan and Germany -- two very divergent cultural structures. Yet how are they now? Where's the idea this cannot be done again coming from? Again, it is from that bastion of American antidemocracy, the Left.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by DanaC

So I'm a racist now? lol. Because I am of the left I am a racist unenlightened bastard?

I assure you my parentage was never in question. And I am morally bankrupt. But only in your moral currency which is valueless to me anyway:P

That's because you're not thinking in an enlightened way yet. Otherwise you wouldn't still be in the Socialist Party, and at your age, too. Moral currency is, I'm afraid, a universal. Remember that I was never in life a socialist, not at twenty, and not now -- and what the aphorism says.

The history of the Left in power is one of man's inhumanity to man, and we can tot up the millions of mighty questionable deaths that happened. Nothing "progressive" there, I assure you. Where, then, is the not-bastardliness?

The one thing I dislike about the Brits in general, and it is too bad, is their easy bigotry; it's more accepted there than here. They have no idea that showing it would raise my American hackles.

We Americans feel embarrassed to discover ourselves harboring prejudices about out-groups. We've done it before -- Catholics, Irish, blacks, Jews -- and we find at the end of the day there's no benefit in it. This enlightenment has not yet dawned on most of the British population -- and the yobbos who actually give physical expression to such racist impulses aren't being left in the dungeons of society's scorn for doing it.

[DanaC]

Ok.

[Aliantha]

UG was on a bit of a rampage yesterday it would seem. lol

Maybe he shouldn't post when he's been drinking.

[DanaC]

I think perhaps that's safer than him posting when he's been thinking.

[Aliantha]

If I wanted to be funny, I'd say I'd never actually seen that, so don't really know what you mean.

UG really believes in what he posts. I can't get upset with him when I remember that he really can't help being who he is. If he wasn't so pompus, we wouldn't get such great food tips from him, and I don't think he really means to be so rude. He just doesn't realize how badly he comes off sometimes...or at least that's what I tell myself. It's far better than being upset by the silly things he says/assumptions he makes sometimes.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

UG was on a bit of a rampage yesterday it would seem. lol

Maybe he shouldn't post when he's been drinking.

As of just now, I am finishing a first glass of California shiraz, with a serving of ground-turkey-sauced pasta. Got peas too. Maybe could have used more Italian seasoning.

That's how I am, sober, Ali. I slay dragons. The dragons fucking hate that, and insist on being undemocrats, which are naturally enemies of mankind.

Of course it would be so much better if they weren't undemocrats.

[Aliantha]

There aren't any dragons here.