Why (some) GM products suck

[glatt]

Popular Mechanics raves about it.
"the Astra is quite easily the best small car to ever wear the Saturn badge."

It sounds pretty nice.

[Shawnee123]

Thanks guys. This is a big deal for me: I've never done this by myself before. I don't want to make a bad decision or be pressured into anything: but I need a new car. My car has 208,000 miles, half of it doesn't work (you know, windows, A/C...) and it's going to just fall into a million pieces on the interstate someday soon.

All advice and opinions are greatly appreciated!

Thanks for the article, they seem to like it.

I will also check local Nissan and Toyota dealers.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

All advice and opinions are greatly appreciated!

Well, you should start by deciding what kind of car you want. The Astra is a hatchback. Is a hatchback what you want? (For a single person, I think a hatchback is a very good choice.)

Wasn't the other car a used one? Do you want new or used?

[Shawnee123]

I think a hatchback would be perfect. I looked at the Honda Fit, as well.

New or used, I don't really care. The Civic was in my guidelines for used (2 years old, less than 30k miles) but at this point I'm not so sold on that anymore, especially after reading and hearing opinions on buy new vs. used.

I'm torn, I guess.

[glatt]

Can you pay cash for new, or would you need to finance?

[Shawnee123]

Hahahaaa...finance. I do have a decent down payment.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

What do you guys think about Saturn?

Saturn never made a profit. Saturn could sell every car made. But to make a profit, Saturn needed a second assembly line. GM said they could not have that second assembly line until they made a profit. Catch-22.

So Saturn sold out to GM about a decade ago. Saturn had to accept cars designed by GM corporate. That included moving production to GM assembly plants such as in Delaware to share assembly with other GM products. It is another GM car just like Chevy.

Astra is not on Consumer Reports recommended list. However it does have one redeeming quality. It has a 70 horsepower per liter engine meaning that the engine probably does not come from GM North America.

Saturn's reliability (by brand) is one of the lowest with Land Rover, Chrysler, and Cadillac. Those reliability numbers are contrary to popular myth. Do you want the image - or reliable transportation? The only Saturn considered reasonable is the Outlook.

Note the difference between those with perception verses real world experience. Above is what we know when divorced from emotion and spin. What we don't know is what will happen to Saturn (and your Saturn dealer) in the future. Saturn will continue to buy their products from GM's manufacturing plants because Saturn had to surrender independence to survive. Saturn had to let GM control its product line and who actually makes the cars. It’s still the same GM assembly plants that also make other unreliable GM cars. We still don't know what will happen to Saturn - and its dealers.

Best cars for value: Honda Accord, Civic and hybrid, Fit, Hyundai Elantra and Sonata, Toyota Corolla, Prius, and Camray Hybrid. It’s not just the sticker price. These are the cars that also cost less after five years of paying for everything.

In a list of best value, not one Saturn makes the list. Of 300 vehicles, Consumer Reports recommended 55. Of the 12 in Astra's category, Astra was near the bottom alongside Chrysler's PT Cruiser, Chevy HHR, and Dodge Caliber. Even the Pontiac Vibe got a better rating.

Whereas the Astra is too new to make the list, other Saturns of various years including Ion, Vue, Outlook, Relay, and Sky made the list of used cars to avoid. And still some will recommend Saturn products? On what? Image? Promise?

Listed were manufacturers to talk to. No matter how large that sticker price may appear, those are cars that traditionally cost you less money and headaches.

What will happen to your Saturn dealer once Saturn is sold off to become some other automaker? The obvious choices are well proven by history AND because those automakers continued to innovate.

Let's see. The GM service rep arrives at a dealer to reimburse for defects in new GM cars. Tire pressure measures off by 2 PSI. The entire warranty was voided on that trivial problem. What happens to your Saturn warranties? GM dealers get stuck with the costs. So your dealer will do everything necessary to avoid honoring that warranty. Just another fact that does not exist where cars earned their reputation - are not recommended on perception and emotion.

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

"the Astra is quite easily the best small car to ever wear the Saturn badge."

And then the same article says

The power rack-and-pinion steering is quick and precise, driven by a hydraulic pump that, in turn, is driven by an electric motor to reduce the drain on engine power.

Where does that 'expert' think the electric power comes from? Obviously draining from the same engine power. Meanwhile, better cars have long used speed sensitive steering. That means it does not need to draw power when the vehicle is moving. Only when stopped or moving less than 5 MPH. Why is steering draining engine power? Either because it does not have the now 'all but required' speed sensitive steering, OR that author does not know much about cars.

The devil is in the details.

Author got one point right. Its engine is not the crappy shit that is routine in most all GM products.

Author also forgot to mention who may end up with Opel (and therefore Saturn). Fiat.

[glatt]

So to sum up your post, the Astra isn't on the list of recommended cars because it is too new. Previous Saturns were crap and didn't make it on the list. But this Saturn which is probably made in Germany by Opel was not considered for the list. Why even mention the list if the Astra wasn't considered? It's not relevant or helpful.

The steering is not relevant either. The article talks about how the power steering is provided, not the speed at which it is engaged. The reviewer liked the feel of the steering. One can assume that it is the speed sensitive steering when the article uses words like "quick and precise."

I'm surprise you aren't shouting from the rooftops how awesome this car is because it meets your long held 70hp/liter standard.

[lumberjim]

[glatt]

Shawnee, it's hard for me to give advice. All I can do is say what I would do in a situation. I would buy a used car if I couldn't afford to pay cash for a new one, but I know a lot of people who would disagree with me.

I'd go for a hatchback made by Honda or Toyota (or their subsidiary Scion.) I would haggle with a private owner based on research I would do to learn blue book values etc. I recognize that you hate haggling, so you should check out what Carmax has to offer. I personally think Carmax prices are too high, but they do clean the cars up really well, and offer warranties and a fixed price. The used cars at Carmax seem like new cars, they are so nice.

But first, I'd go to the bookstore and get the Consumer Reports used car buying guide and read the front sections in their entirety and then the specific sections about hatchbacks.

[Undertoad]

The stereo has a non-standard, built-in setup which makes it impossible to replace, and does not include an AUX Input jack. That's enough FAIL for me.

[Clodfobble]

Aside from the quality or appropriateness of an Astra for your situation, don't be fooled by the "we offer the best price with no haggling!" line. That doesn't necessarily mean their prices are actually lower, it just means they want to tell you not to ask for it to go any lower. Right now car dealerships are really hurting, and you can get like 20% off sticker price if you pick the right car/place.

[Shawnee123]

I don't care about paying cash: any car I get, new or used, will be in that price range. With a 40 minute commute each way, and since I plan to work here for a while, I won't buy a 500 dollar car: I'd just be right where I am now. Who doesn't finance? I don't know too many people who have thousands in cash lying around.

I don't give one hoot about the music capabilities: will it play the radio and my CDs? Good enough.

Right now car dealerships are really hurting, and you can get like 20% off sticker price if you pick the right car/place.

Sure, if you can do that kind of thing. My whole point is that I am not a haggler, not good at bargaining, and I find the whole normal car-buying back and forth very stressful and uncomfortable. I just want a car: why does it have to be so damn sneaky snaky?

@ jim: I'll have to watch the motorweek (I love that show ) clip later from home.

[lumberjim]

damned predatory opportuninstic consumers