Torture memos

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

And for people whose driving ideals are so unpopular they must use violence to persuade instead of reason -- id est, terrorists -- this is bad how?

All mankind except for sugarpop, who has never once looked at it this way, wants these enemies of humanity in precisely that state of mind. Thus, they may be cracked, and certain of their fellow creatures thereby denied a chance to assail other human beings.

The difference you're so concerned with is therefore unimportant. The terrs are people, sugarpop, who would as cheerfully lop off your head as they would mine, in your case after multiple gang rapes and sundry mutilations. Ever seen that one "after" picture of the partisan girl the Nazis got hold of in Russia? That might be you. That is their human rights record, and it is far worse than ours.

And I wouldn't do it to them. Despite knowledge of their human rights record. That's because I'm so much better a man than they can be. You might try being a sensible woman.

So because they do it, that means WE should? That is a very poor argument for doing things that are inhumane and immoral to another human being. The United States of America is supposed to above such things. We are supposed to be the moral leaders of the world. How can we claim such a title when we lower ourselves to the level of the terrorists that we so hate?

I have a question for all of you who think what we did isn't torture, those pictures from Abu Ghraib, if they had been reversed, and it was OUR soldiers who were treated like that, how would you have felt? You would all have been screaming bloody murder that they were tortured, but since it was US who did it, you feel the need to make excuses. You really need to examine that.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

. . .those pictures from Abu Ghraib, if they had been reversed, and it was OUR soldiers who were treated like that, how would you have felt? You would all have been screaming bloody murder that they were tortured, but since it was US who did it, you feel the need to make excuses. You really need to examine that.

Annoyed, but I wouldn't call it torture. Why do you insist that the most thoughtful, profound people on the board are thoughtless?

We can win, or we can make excuses. We had until recently an Administration who wasn't making excuses, but trying to win. I don't see the same spirit in the Obama Administration, which is why I voted for a real war-fighter, not a socialist-influenced comparative lightweight who by his mere unaggressiveness shall encourage the icky fascistic unfriendlies. It is bad for the Republic, and bad for mankind in general, to encourage these unfriendlies. Show otherwise or shut up.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Annoyed, but I wouldn't call it torture. Why do you insist that the most thoughtful, profound people on the board are thoughtless?

We can win, or we can make excuses. We had until recently an Administration who wasn't making excuses, but trying to win. I don't see the same spirit in the Obama Administration, which is why I voted for a real war-fighter, not a socialist-influenced comparative lightweight who by his mere unaggressiveness shall encourage the icky fascistic unfriendlies. It is bad for the Republic, and bad for mankind in general, to encourage these unfriendlies. Show otherwise or shut up.

Well sir, I do not believe you. Anyone who thinks we do not torture, I would be willing to bet if the shoe had been on the other foot, they would be screaming bloody murder for revenge if it had been OUR soldiers who were treated so inhumanely at Abu Ghraib. They would be crying for blood.

And to put everything in perspective, more people die in this country in car crashes every year than were killed on 9-11. More people die of cancer every year. More people die from handguns every year. More people die from alzheimers, or kidney failure, or diabetes. Hell, more people die from the damn flu every year than died in 9-11. Does that mean we shouldn't have gone after the people who attacked us? No. Of course we should have. But attacking a country that had nothing to do with it was wrong. Imprisoning people who had nothing to do with it, and holding them for YEARS without a trial was wrong. And most definitely torturing them was WRONG.