TEA Parties

[slang]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Biofuels are not a myth.

Hello SP

I must say in all honesty that most everything that you post makes my trigger finger twitch and the word "bullshit" slip out of my mouth quite loudly.

We do however agree on the biofuels issue. Food for fuel? That does not have to be the case. How many people eat marine algae as a food stapel? Not many. I believe that ethanol is viable through algae.

Ethanol alone is not the answer and wont replace gas as a motor fuel. It seems possible to me that 50/50 gas ethanol would make a huge difference in energy imports and allow more job/business opportunities here in the US. Not bullshit census jobs, real jobs that pay and that are sustainable.

With some luck and good planning I should be able to study and experiment more on the subject in the coming months on my next great adventure back to the Philippine islands.

The coastal waters are warm enough year round to allow continuous harvesting of algae and the islands combined have about 25k miles of coastline to accomplish this. The US, on the other hand has about half of that length of coastline and much of that is out of the temperature range of many types of algae.

This is something that I'm quite serious about investigating. It seems possible that with all the conditions present today that the PI could provide a good portion of alcohol to it's fuel market as well as possibly China's.

Lots of "ifs" in there but it's technically possible IMO.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by slang

Lots of "ifs" in there but it's technically possible IMO.

It's being done. Boeing is pushing it bigtime, convincing several jet engine makers and the US Air Force to test it successfully. Teeming up with a couple of Aussie outfits to work on reliable mass production techniques from algae. It's not ready for prime time but they've made impressive progress and see it as a viable solution for aircraft.

[slang]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Teeming up with a couple of Aussie outfits to work on reliable mass production techniques from algae.

Which coastline are they proposing to set up production?

Southern Cali would be nearly perfect. That means it will not be done there the way things work.

I've not seen the published data on the emissions but heard in an interview that it's "nearly as clean as hydrogen while being much more economical."

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by slang

Which coastline are they proposing to set up production?

Southern Cali would be nearly perfect. That means it will not be done there the way things work.

I've not seen the published data on the emissions but heard in an interview that it's "nearly as clean as hydrogen while being much more economical."

Here are some links:
http://cc.pubco.net/www.valcent.net/...gro/index.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0818184434.htm
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...61432871186746
http://gas2.org/2008/03/29/first-alg...-april-1-2008/
http://earth2tech.com/2008/03/27/15-...to-fuel-tanks/

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by slang

Which coastline are they proposing to set up production?

Southern Cali would be nearly perfect. That means it will not be done there the way things work.

I've not seen the published data on the emissions but heard in an interview that it's "nearly as clean as hydrogen while being much more economical."

Here's another one.

BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) - A new study says jet fuel made with the oilseed
crop camelina could cut greenhouse gas emissions by up to 84 percent
compared with jet fuel from petroleum.
The finding is expected to be used by the aviation industry as it weighs a
number of alternative fuels with the potential to reduce costs and curb
emissions.
Camelina is considered well-suited to Montana and other arid Northern
Plains states because it needs little water. Terrance Scott with the
aircraft manufacturer Boeing says camelina is one of a handful of crops
with the potential to provide sufficient "feedstock" to make large
quantities of jet fuel.
However, the industry has struggled to attract growers willing to switch
to the crop. Also, falling oil prices have dampened its economic appeal.
The greenhouse gas emissions study was done by the Sustainable Futures
Institute at Michigan Technological University. It was funded by the
camelina industry and conducted with jet fuel from camelina seeds
developed by a Bozeman company, Sustainable Oils.
For the study, lead author David Shonnard said he conducted a "life cycle"
comparison of camelina with petroleum, meaning he factored in the
greenhouse gas emissions from fertilizing, growing, harvesting and using
the crop.
Conventional camelina, Shonnard said, can cut greenhouse gas emissions by
60 to 70 percent with no loss of performance for the fuel.
The 84 percent reduction in greenhouse gases was based on a strain of
camelina expected to need less fertilizer and yield more pounds per acre
than types of the crop currently in production.
"These next generation biofuels are true hydrocarbons and on a molecular
level indistinguishable from fossil fuels," said Shonnard, a chemical
engineering professor at Michigan Tech.
Sustainable Oils General Manager Scott Johnson said Shonnard's study could
help sell dubious farmers on camelina by showing them its market
advantages.
"It's been a little slow start for camelina," Johnson said. "They don't
want to grow something that doesn't have a fit."
Shonnard said he expected that within a few years a market will develop
for camelina and other biofuels such as jatropha, switchgrass and algae.
With the worldwide population growing -- and worries over global warming
intensifying -- he said the "trends are in place" for the biofuels market
to expand as at least a partial replacement for petroleum.

[slang]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Here's another one.

Very interesting.

The time available for researching and reading has been reduced lately due to deadlines at work.

Anything that can make the US fuel independant or move us in that direction has my attention. That attention is limited for now but that's going to change in a few months.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by slang

Hello SP

I must say in all honesty that most everything that you post makes my trigger finger twitch and the word "bullshit" slip out of my mouth quite loudly.

We do however agree on the biofuels issue. Food for fuel? That does not have to be the case. How many people eat marine algae as a food stapel? Not many. I believe that ethanol is viable through algae.

Ethanol alone is not the answer and wont replace gas as a motor fuel. It seems possible to me that 50/50 gas ethanol would make a huge difference in energy imports and allow more job/business opportunities here in the US. Not bullshit census jobs, real jobs that pay and that are sustainable.

With some luck and good planning I should be able to study and experiment more on the subject in the coming months on my next great adventure back to the Philippine islands.

The coastal waters are warm enough year round to allow continuous harvesting of algae and the islands combined have about 25k miles of coastline to accomplish this. The US, on the other hand has about half of that length of coastline and much of that is out of the temperature range of many types of algae.

This is something that I'm quite serious about investigating. It seems possible that with all the conditions present today that the PI could provide a good portion of alcohol to it's fuel market as well as possibly China's.

Lots of "ifs" in there but it's technically possible IMO.

I have brought up the whole biofuel from algae thing before and posted a link. Brazil makes fuel from sugarcane, so we know it can work.

What else did I say that makes you want to kill me? Electric cars?

Here is a link to Tesla Motors, fully electirc cars... http://www.teslamotors.com/

[tw]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I have brought up the whole biofuel from algae thing before and posted a link. Brazil makes fuel from sugarcane, so we know it can work.

It works for Brazilian biomass because they grow in temperatures above 70 degrees F. The process to obtain energy from biomaterial grown at lower temperatures (ie corn) is so inefficient as to probably consume more energy than it creates.

The concept works in theory. In practice, it has been a grand and expensive disappointment.

So how did we solve the problem? A technically ignorant admistration solved it by putting a $0.50 per gallon tax on Brazilian and other imported ethanol. Biofuels were really only welfare to midwest farmers.

For your proposals to work, first they must work in science. None have yet shown anywhere near the promise or success that must exist today for them to work in years future.

A glaring fact makes the most viable solution obvious. In ten gallons of gas maybe one and never more than two gallons do productive work. That other eight plus gallons gets wasted completely as heat or pollution. That is where solutions can be implemented, already exist in some examples, and are still being routinely stified by the companies who could best implement them and be profitable for doing so.

Everybody likes Sara Lee - even though she routinely stifled battery innovation? General Motors remains unscathed by your contempt?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by tw

Everybody likes Sara Lee - even though she routinely stifled battery innovation? General Motors remains unscathed by your contempt?

Not something you can prove, so it must be one of your moronic lies: you cannot show improved battery technology to exist, and insist some industry conspiracy is suppressing its expression. Well, conspiracy theory is the realm of flakes and kooks.

Note that I never subscribe to conspiracy theory in any of my so-called "crazy" posts.

Not like you could make a 500-mile/80mph battery pack, either. You can't even theorize how, let alone engineer it. Broke-dick.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Not something you can prove, so it must be one of your moronic lies: you cannot show improved battery technology to exist, and insist some industry conspiracy is suppressing its expression. Well, conspiracy theory is the realm of flakes and kooks.

Note that I never subscribe to conspiracy theory in any of my so-called "crazy" posts.

Not like you could make a 500-mile/80mph battery pack, either. You can't even theorize how, let alone engineer it. Broke-dick.

There IS a 300 mile battery though, already in use, and I have posted SEVERAL TIMES links to the website. yes, the cars are still kind of expensive for some people, but as more people buy them, they will become less expensive, AND, they are comparable to other cars in the same price range.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I have posted SEVERAL TIMES links to the website.

Exept tesla is apparently full of crap - err - exaggerating their claims.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by classicman

Exept tesla is apparently full of crap - err - exaggerating their claims.

cite please.

[slang]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

What else did I say that makes you want to kill me?

Not you, your socialist/collectivist ideas/non-stop slobbering on the Messiah.

Which ones? Yeah I know, please cite. I'm working 7 days now and don't have time to properly add to many of these irritating posts.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by slang

Not you, your socialist/collectivist ideas/non-stop slobbering on the Messiah.

Which ones? Yeah I know, please cite. I'm working 7 days now and don't have time to properly add to many of these irritating posts.

non-stop slobbering on the messiah? Clearly you have me confused with someone else...

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

non-stop slobbering on the messiah? Clearly you have me confused with someone else...

Frankly, m'dear, no he doesn't. You sound like this textbook example of someone with leftist opinions only -- a stereotype Secular-Progressive, completely politically correct, and completely unversed in the merits of competing views. Thus you believe you are both right and moral. There are those of us who aren't so sure of either.