Torture memos

[classicman]

The CIA's Questioning Worked

President Obama declared that the techniques used to question captured terrorists "did not make us safer." This is patently false. The proof is in the memos Obama made public -- in sections that have gone virtually unreported in the media.

Why aren't they getting reported????

Because they know that if the public could see the details of the techniques side by side with evidence that the program saved American lives, the vast majority would support continuing it.

" Once the techniques were applied, "interrogations have led to specific, actionable intelligence, as well as a general increase in the amount of intelligence regarding al Qaeda and its affiliates."

Specifically, interrogation with enhanced techniques "led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the 'Second Wave,' 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles." KSM later acknowledged before a military commission at Guantanamo Bay that the target was the Library Tower. "information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemmah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the 'Second Wave.' "without enhanced interrogations, there could be a hole in the ground in Los Angeles to match the one in New York.

Hmm

CIA Director Leon Panetta said during his confirmation hearings that even the Obama administration might use some of the enhanced techniques in a "ticking time bomb" scenario.
President Obama's decision to release these documents is one of the most dangerous and irresponsible acts ever by an American president during a time of war -- and Americans may die as a result.

Excellent article UT.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by classicman

The CIA's Questioning Worked

Why aren't they getting reported????



Hmm


Excellent article UT.

That information was already out in the public domain. Everyone knew it, but some of the people here wouldn't believe until they saw proof. Well, now you have proof. I think it is imperative that the citizens of this country know what the ones in power are doing. Otherwise, we don't have a free society.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

That information was already out in the public domain. Everyone knew it, but some of the people here wouldn't believe until they saw proof. Well, now you have proof. I think it is imperative that the citizens of this country know what the ones in power are doing. Otherwise, we don't have a free society.

Any government that releases all it's secrets will not be around for very long. Regardless of what kind of gov it is.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Any government that releases all it's secrets will not be around for very long. Regardless of what kind of gov it is.

Which is why an extremist George Jr administration successfully saved the nation by repeatedly subverting the 911 Commission.

Honesty exposed that not one wacko extremist did anything to save America that day. A Secret Service agent finally had to push the president onto Air Force One (in FL) because nobody from George Jr on down could make a decision. Could not even decide to get on Air Force One. Good thing we saved America by keeping that secret hidden. Good thing we keep America from learning of incompetence everywhere in that administration that day - including the VP, Transportation Secretary, Sec of Defense, National Security advisor, FAA Commissioner, ...

Best way to save America – keep it dumb and uninformed.

[tw]

And still some deny we were torturing people. How does that make America any different than Nazis? From the NY Times of 21 Apr 2009:

Report Gives New Detail on Approval of Brutal Techniques
A newly declassified Congressional report released Tuesday outlined the most detailed evidence yet that the military’s use of harsh interrogation methods on terrorism suspects was approved at high levels of the Bush administration. ...

The Senate report documented how some of the techniques used by the military at prisons in Afghanistan and at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, as well as in Iraq ...

According to the Senate investigation, a military behavioral scientist and a colleague who had witnessed SERE training proposed its use at Guantánamo in October 2002, as pressure was rising “to get ‘tougher’ with detainee interrogations.” Officers there sought authorization, and Mr. Rumsfeld approved 15 interrogation techniques.

The report showed that Mr. Rumsfeld’s authorization was cited by a United States military special-operations lawyer in Afghanistan as “an analogy and basis for use of these techniques,” and that, in February 2003, a special-operations unit in Iraq obtained a copy of the policy from Afghanistan “that included aggressive techniques, changed the letterhead, and adopted the policy verbatim.”

Months later, the report said, the interrogation officer in charge at Abu Ghraib obtained a copy of that policy “and submitted it, virtually unchanged, through her chain of command.” This ultimately led to authorization by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez of the use of stress positions, “sleep management” and military dogs to exploit detainees’ fears, the report said.

“The paper trail on abuse leads to top civilian leaders, and our report connects the dots,” Senator Carl Levin, Democrat of Michigan, the chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said on Tuesday in a conference call with reporters. “This report, in great detail, shows a paper trail going from that authorization” by Mr. Rumsfeld “to Guantánamo to Afghanistan and to Iraq,” Mr. Levin said.

But Americans don't torture? 30 years in future, expect extremists again to promote torture as if that somehow results in useful information ... when facts and examples routinely say otherwise.

Curious. Those who created the 'Saddam WMD' myths also advocated torture. Why? Because they could not find those WMDs, could not find Al Qaeda hiding everywhere to kill us all ... and could not find bin Laden because they did not want to. And yet these are honest people? With so much 'honesty' from advocates of torture, how does that make us any different than Nazis?

[tw]

From the Washington Post:

Confronting the Bush Legacy, Reluctantly
Widening an explosive debate on torture, President Obama on Tuesday opened the possibility of prosecution for Bush-era lawyers who authorized brutal interrogation of terror suspects and suggested Congress might order a full investigation. The three men facing the most scrutiny are former Justice Department officials Jay Bybee, Steven Bradbury and John Yoo.

Lying was not limited to Saddam's WMDs.

[glatt]

As much of a douche bag I think Gonzales is, I think opening the door to investigations is a bad idea.

Originally Posted by lookout123

You're correct, torture is not effective. Pulling someone's fingernails out is just as likely to produce lies as truth. The things described above aren't torture. They're discomfort. Keeping someone awake for days tends to screw with their determination. Sitting in uncomfortable temperatures can do the same. Anything that causes a person to lose focus can be useful in getting information. That information shouldn't be immediately believed without some verification, but it certainly is a start.

Ask any law enforcement officer.

Hell, ask John McCain.

After prolonged torture and cruel and degrading treatment, he lost focus and gave information.

He named names....the Green Bay Packer offensive line.

He named cities in Vietnam.....cities that were not targets of opportunity.

Originally Posted by classicman

The CIA's Questioning Worked

Excellent article UT.

It is not an article, but an editorial by Bush's speechwriter so consider the spin.

Where is the verifiable information of stopping a "second wave attack on LA " when it has been reported just as much by other sources that no such wave was a serious threat. The FBI also walked away from the waterboarding of the two "big fish" when they thought the information was not credible.