Impeding changes to our Health Care system - Page 3

sugarpop · 04-20-2009, 11:19 PM

If private insurance cos could be forced to do the right thing and stop charging so much, then I am all for it. It seems all they care about though is profits and big salaries, just like the people on Wall Street. I watched something on (it was either) Dateline or 60 minutes the other night about AIG, and how they are forcing veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan to fight for their benefits. it was sickening. And that is business as usual with insurance cos. It has to stop.

If hospitals were required to put cameras in operating rooms, it might cut down on frivolous lawsuits against doctors, because there would be proof of any wrongdoing. That would make doctor's insurance premiums go down significantly, I think. It would also weed out the bad doctors who give all doctors a bad name. What do you think of that idea?

Then there are the general costs. Why does an aspirin cost so damn much in a hospital? It's ridiculous, the fees they charge for certain things. Health care should not be about profit. That is when it all started going to shit. Of course it is a business, and every business has to make some profit, but not the way is it now.

I won't even get started about big pharma cos.

TheMercenary · 04-21-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Then there are the general costs. Why does an aspirin cost so damn much in a hospital? It's ridiculous, the fees they charge for certain things.

Because they charge those with insurance and cash paying people to cover the costs of those without insurance plus profit for everything.

Quote:

Health care should not be about profit. That is when it all started going to shit. Of course it is a business, and every business has to make some profit, but not the way is it now.

Why not?

Typical General Surgeon training:

Goes to High School. Works harder than most, makes good grades at an early age. Works hard to go to college.

Goes to college. Takes all the Pre-med track to get into Med School, generally studies pretty hard to get into a good medical school. A much harder track than most. Has to apply to Med School and interview at everyone they want to apply to. Needs pretty good grades to get into a good one.

Gets into medical school. Now has to study pretty hard for four straight years, including most summers or a portion of, to get into the specialty they want. For general surgery needs pretty darn good grades in medical school.

Graduates and immediately goes into a 1 year transitional internship. All the time trying to get accepted into a Surgical residency. Say they pass the mustard to get in and you have to work pretty darn hard because there are not that many slots and you get in.

Now you do 5 years, balls to the wall non-stop residency training, no breaks, no summers off. 16 to 20 hour days are the norm. Try that with a family, many do.

Now say you graduate and pass all the bs. Now you go into your case collection period of 1 to 2 years to become board certified, after 1 year you sit for a written board (written test). If you pass that you get to continue to do case collection (fancy way of doing lots of surgery and documenting every single case). After another year you are eligible to sit for oral boards. Here you get to stand in front of a group of people who wrote the text books and defend the cases cases you did as well as answer any question to the exhaustion of what you know. If you do well you pass and become "Board Certified", if you fail you try again the next year and study harder. Many do not pass the written test, nor the orals and cannot become Board Certified.

Each specialty is different for the length of the Residency but the process is generally the same for every physician.

If you want to become a plastic surgeon you do the same as above and then apply for a fellowship and do an additional 2 years, rinse and repeat through the board certification process.

Anyone want to give it all up and be a doctor?

Shawnee123 · 04-21-2009, 11:45 AM

All I got from that was that they have to work pretty darn hard and get pretty darn good grades. Sounds pretty darn prohibitive, for most.

Oh, and if they don't pass the mustard, they're screwed. Those hot dogs won't flavor themselves, you know.

TheMercenary · 04-21-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Oh, and if they don't pass the mustard, they're screwed. Those hot dogs won't flavor themselves, you know.

Yea, you can pretty much be dumped at any step along the way and have to at least go back to the beginning of your immediate starting point. Anyone want to buy a hot dog?

sugarpop · 04-21-2009, 06:33 PM

Merc, I am not saying doctors don't deserve high salaries, because I think they do. I think some of them overcharge significantly, but still, I don't think doctors are the problem. INSURANCE is the problem.

And you still haven't answered my question about cameras in operating rooms.

TheMercenary · 04-21-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Merc, I am not saying doctors don't deserve high salaries, because I think they do. I think some of them overcharge significantly, but still, I don't think doctors are the problem. INSURANCE is the problem.

And you still haven't answered my question about cameras in operating rooms.

No one is going to agree to cameras in an OR. Forget that. It will not happen.

They overcharge becase of all the patients they care for who do not pay or for the underpayment by federal health insurance programs. No different than what hospitals do to stay solvent.

sugarpop · 04-21-2009, 06:49 PM

Well then, why do we pay SO much more per capita in this country for health care than any other country on earth? It's friggin' ridiculous, how much the cost of health care has risen over the past decade. We should have done something back in Clinton's first term, but the insurance cos put all those commercials on TV that scared the crap out of people. I think a majority of people today want a single payer system, but Congress will never pass it. The insurance industry is too important to them. (BIG money)

Why is it that hospitals will never agree to cameras in ORs?

lookout123 · 04-21-2009, 09:14 PM

could it be because they know they'll get the crapped sued out of them left and right if they do that?

TheMercenary · 04-21-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

could it be because they know they'll get the crapped sued out of them left and right if they do that?

Essentially, yes. They stopped video in the OR a long time ago. 99.999999999999999999999% of the time there is no mistake and no problem. So why give the lawyer ammo when something comes up?

classicman · 04-21-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I think a majority of people today want a single payer system, but Congress will never pass it. The insurance industry is too important to them. (BIG money)

I would consider it, bu I certainly don't want it to be run by the Gov't

sugarpop · 04-22-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Essentially, yes. They stopped video in the OR a long time ago. 99.999999999999999999999% of the time there is no mistake and no problem. So why give the lawyer ammo when something comes up?

ummmm, having video in the OR would stop most lawsuits if there is no mistake 99.9% of the time. so again, why don't they put them in the OR? The if there IS a mistake, they can go ahead and settel out of court. it would be a lot cheaper.

sugarpop · 04-22-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

I would consider it, bu I certainly don't want it to be run by the Gov't

I don't believe it has to run by the government, it just has to be paid for by the government. They could have a private industry running it, and it could be overseen by the government.

TheMercenary · 04-22-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

ummmm, having video in the OR would stop most lawsuits if there is no mistake 99.9% of the time. so again, why don't they put them in the OR? The if there IS a mistake, they can go ahead and settel out of court. it would be a lot cheaper.

Because provider will not allow it. I do not allow myself to be filmed during procedures. I rarely allow pictures.

sugarpop · 04-22-2009, 06:56 PM

Why? I don't get it. If it will help you avoid a lawsuit in the future...

classicman · 04-22-2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

They could have a private industry running it, and it could be overseen by the government.

A nice independent organization like... say... nuts?

04-21-2009, 11:45 AM	#33
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	All I got from that was that they have to work pretty darn hard and get pretty darn good grades. Sounds pretty darn prohibitive, for most. Oh, and if they don't pass the mustard, they're screwed. Those hot dogs won't flavor themselves, you know. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

04-21-2009, 09:14 PM	#38
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	could it be because they know they'll get the crapped sued out of them left and right if they do that? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

04-20-2009, 11:19 PM	#31
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	If private insurance cos could be forced to do the right thing and stop charging so much, then I am all for it. It seems all they care about though is profits and big salaries, just like the people on Wall Street. I watched something on (it was either) Dateline or 60 minutes the other night about AIG, and how they are forcing veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan to fight for their benefits. it was sickening. And that is business as usual with insurance cos. It has to stop. If hospitals were required to put cameras in operating rooms, it might cut down on frivolous lawsuits against doctors, because there would be proof of any wrongdoing. That would make doctor's insurance premiums go down significantly, I think. It would also weed out the bad doctors who give all doctors a bad name. What do you think of that idea? Then there are the general costs. Why does an aspirin cost so damn much in a hospital? It's ridiculous, the fees they charge for certain things. Health care should not be about profit. That is when it all started going to shit. Of course it is a business, and every business has to make some profit, but not the way is it now. I won't even get started about big pharma cos.

04-21-2009, 06:33 PM	#35
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	Merc, I am not saying doctors don't deserve high salaries, because I think they do. I think some of them overcharge significantly, but still, I don't think doctors are the problem. INSURANCE is the problem. And you still haven't answered my question about cameras in operating rooms.

04-21-2009, 06:49 PM	#37
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	Well then, why do we pay SO much more per capita in this country for health care than any other country on earth? It's friggin' ridiculous, how much the cost of health care has risen over the past decade. We should have done something back in Clinton's first term, but the insurance cos put all those commercials on TV that scared the crap out of people. I think a majority of people today want a single payer system, but Congress will never pass it. The insurance industry is too important to them. (BIG money) Why is it that hospitals will never agree to cameras in ORs?

04-22-2009, 06:56 PM	#44
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	Why? I don't get it. If it will help you avoid a lawsuit in the future...

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