Somali pirates hijack Saudi oil tanker - Page 8

Cloud · 04-12-2009, 03:27 PM

I'm not condoning it, but after years of violence and starvation, I do understand there are few options left to them. The only way (okay, maybe not the only way, but probably the best way) to stop it is to make more legitimate pursuits available and sustainable.

TheMercenary · 04-12-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

I'm not condoning it, but after years of violence and starvation, I do understand there are few options left to them. The only way (okay, maybe not the only way, but probably the best way) to stop it is to make more legitimate pursuits available and sustainable.

I agree, as long at the US is not involved in that.

xoxoxoBruce · 04-12-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

What kind of acts would you resort to if your children are starving? I'd resort to a hell of a lot.

What makes you think these pirates have children?

sugarpop · 04-12-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

What makes you think these pirates have children?

From some of the pictures I've seen, some of the pirates ARE children.

I agree Merc, that they should consider hiring private security and having machine guns on board. It is not up to the US Navy to act here. Those are private companies, it should be their expense.

Elspode · 04-12-2009, 10:47 PM

This is going to get uglier. The pirates will begin killing hostages...not only those they now have, but in all likelihood the crews of ships they board.

The pirates themselves have opened the door for any and all retaliation by the nature of their acts of piracy. Sad though it will be when they do start indiscriminately killing their hostages and the ship crews, it will then make it possible for the military forces of the world to simply blast these fuckers off the face of the planet, no questions asked.

Once those who take vessels end up dead *and* empty handed, piracy will no longer be quite so attractive.

Like I said, it is sad, but violent people only understand superior force. Sanity, rationality and anything other than violence is taken as a weakness to be exploited. When we talk about how underprivileged they are, we are being humane, but those who are engaged in wanton antisocial and lawless behaviors such as piracy would gladly take our money and our lives if we gave them a sliver of a chance.

I hold my sympathies back for those who aren't trying to steal and kill their ways out of their plights. If some underprivileged thug comes and steals my shit and threatens my family, my response is *not* going to be to go donate to the Save the Thugs fund.

xoxoxoBruce · 04-13-2009, 12:17 AM

Hmmm, are the shippers, or more accurately their insurance companies, paying ransom to get back their crews or their ships. It's easy to say both, but I wonder if they would still pay with the crew dead?

I think so... business is business.

TheMercenary · 04-13-2009, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

From some of the pictures I've seen, some of the pirates ARE children.

That changes nothing.

sugarpop · 04-13-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That changes nothing.

I didn't say it did. And I agreed with you.

sugarpop · 04-13-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Hmmm, are the shippers, or more accurately their insurance companies, paying ransom to get back their crews or their ships. It's easy to say both, but I wonder if they would still pay with the crew dead?

I think so... business is business.

There was a captain of a ship that had been attacked before on (I believe it was) CNN. He said (I'm paraphrasing) they didn't want to have armed guards on board because they felt it would escalate the situation (and also it is illegal in some countries), and it was more beneficial to just pay the money. So I guess in a sense he was saying paying the money was thought of as a cost of doing business in that part of the world.

Why would they pay if the crew/hostages are dead? If they start killing hostages, then I would think most countries would fight back.

The problem, apparently, is Somalia is ungovernable. In addition, a lot of this money is going to al qaeda. It is an international problem, and there needs to be an international solution.

Happy Monkey · 04-13-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

So I guess in a sense he was saying paying the money was thought of as a cost of doing business in that part of the world.

It's seen that way by the pirates as well, which can lead to a weird sense of entitlement, like with corrupt officials and bribery.

Quote:

Why would they pay if the crew/hostages are dead? If they start killing hostages, then I would think most countries would fight back.

And vice versa. I don't think we did anything wrong in this case, but there is good reason to avoid escalation when possible.

classicman · 04-13-2009, 12:47 PM

U.S. Military Considers Attacks on Somali Pirates’ Land Bases

Quote:

April 13 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. military is considering attacks on pirate bases on land and aid for the Somali people to help stem ship hijackings off Africa’s east coast, defense officials said.

The military also is drawing up proposals to aid the fledgling Somalia government to train security forces and develop its own coast guard, said the officials, who requested anonymity. The plans will be presented to the Obama administration as it considers a coordinated U.S. government and international response to piracy, the officials said.

The effort follows the freeing yesterday of Richard Phillips, a U.S. cargo ship captain held hostage since April 8 by Somali pirates. Security analysts said making shipping lanes safe would require disrupting the pirates’ support network on land.

“There really isn’t a silver-bullet solution other than going into Somalia and rooting out the bases” of the pirates, said James Carafano, senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation, a Washington-based group.

sugarpop · 04-13-2009, 01:50 PM

GREAT. So we are going to have to pay for THIS now too? jezzus. How many countries are we going to spend money on in order to train security forces for them? Does anyone else have the sense that this will eventually come back and bite us on the ass?

classicman · 04-13-2009, 01:56 PM

We are now a nation of apologists. I fully expect this situation which IS NOT OUR FAULT to be our fault is some effed up convoluted way. THEY chose to hijack our ship, we defended ourselves. Eff them and the dingy they came in on.

TheMercenary · 04-13-2009, 08:57 PM

BOHICAG

Urbane Guerrilla · 04-13-2009, 09:34 PM

"...Here It Comes Again -- George?"

Actually, America is the one country best situated to do anything at all about making legitimate activities sustainable once again, Merc, and what's more, we're well situated to make piracy nonsurvivable and harrow all the pirate base towns.

Which is what's needed. Eliminate the troublemakers, hire any survivors to fix things back up. In the Somalis' situation, which is very bad, the one tool that will answer is a two-by-four, both applied to the troublemakers' skulls, and used to frame windows in new houses to replace what's been blown flat.

The recent coup by the SEAL shooters is a great success of the "big dick" approach that tw can't bring himself to properly spell, and which is such an improvement over the emasculated counsel he usually proffers. Billions for cleanout, not another .01 Euro for ransoms. A pirate suddenly deprived of his head is a pirate suddenly improved. A good pirate is a pirate messily split in two, horizontal or vertical dealer's choice, and his boat left in a sinking condition.

04-12-2009, 03:27 PM	#106
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	I'm not condoning it, but after years of violence and starvation, I do understand there are few options left to them. The only way (okay, maybe not the only way, but probably the best way) to stop it is to make more legitimate pursuits available and sustainable. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

04-12-2009, 10:47 PM	#110
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	This is going to get uglier. The pirates will begin killing hostages...not only those they now have, but in all likelihood the crews of ships they board. The pirates themselves have opened the door for any and all retaliation by the nature of their acts of piracy. Sad though it will be when they do start indiscriminately killing their hostages and the ship crews, it will then make it possible for the military forces of the world to simply blast these fuckers off the face of the planet, no questions asked. Once those who take vessels end up dead and empty handed, piracy will no longer be quite so attractive. Like I said, it is sad, but violent people only understand superior force. Sanity, rationality and anything other than violence is taken as a weakness to be exploited. When we talk about how underprivileged they are, we are being humane, but those who are engaged in wanton antisocial and lawless behaviors such as piracy would gladly take our money and our lives if we gave them a sliver of a chance. I hold my sympathies back for those who aren't trying to steal and kill their ways out of their plights. If some underprivileged thug comes and steals my shit and threatens my family, my response is not going to be to go donate to the Save the Thugs fund. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog Last edited by Elspode; 04-12-2009 at 10:53 PM.

04-13-2009, 12:17 AM	#111
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Hmmm, are the shippers, or more accurately their insurance companies, paying ransom to get back their crews or their ships. It's easy to say both, but I wonder if they would still pay with the crew dead? I think so... business is business. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

04-13-2009, 01:56 PM	#118
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	We are now a nation of apologists. I fully expect this situation which IS NOT OUR FAULT to be our fault is some effed up convoluted way. THEY chose to hijack our ship, we defended ourselves. Eff them and the dingy they came in on. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

04-13-2009, 08:57 PM	#119
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	BOHICAG __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

04-13-2009, 01:50 PM	#117
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	GREAT. So we are going to have to pay for THIS now too? jezzus. How many countries are we going to spend money on in order to train security forces for them? Does anyone else have the sense that this will eventually come back and bite us on the ass?

04-13-2009, 09:34 PM	#120
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	"...Here It Comes Again -- George?" Actually, America is the one country best situated to do anything at all about making legitimate activities sustainable once again, Merc, and what's more, we're well situated to make piracy nonsurvivable and harrow all the pirate base towns. Which is what's needed. Eliminate the troublemakers, hire any survivors to fix things back up. In the Somalis' situation, which is very bad, the one tool that will answer is a two-by-four, both applied to the troublemakers' skulls, and used to frame windows in new houses to replace what's been blown flat. The recent coup by the SEAL shooters is a great success of the "big dick" approach that tw can't bring himself to properly spell, and which is such an improvement over the emasculated counsel he usually proffers. Billions for cleanout, not another .01 Euro for ransoms. A pirate suddenly deprived of his head is a pirate suddenly improved. A good pirate is a pirate messily split in two, horizontal or vertical dealer's choice, and his boat left in a sinking condition. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

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