Does Anyone feel like Bailing

[classicman]

I got yer 85% right here

[ZenGum]

Who made YOU top management?????

[Shawnee123]

The Board.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Senator Byron Dorgan predicted the recession back in 99...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#29886298

So did Paul Krugman, in The Return of Depression Economics.

So did tw, but would y'all listen? Noooooo.

[sugarpop]

Did he really? I wouldn't know. I wasn't around here back then.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sure, regularly for as long as I can remember.

[sugarpop]

hmmmm. Maybe people shouldn't write him off so bad. I think he's quite astute, personally.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It isn't what he says, usually. It's the obnoxious, long winded, filled with irrelevant repeated crap, way he says it. Refusing to clarify his statements(even when asked politely), and attacking anyone who dares to ask.

Most people's eyes glaze over half way through his posts, if they don't ignore them completely. It's really a shame he shoots himself in the foot, because although I don't often agree with him, he usually has something valid to add. But sifting through a multi thousand word post to find the points that could be made in a sentence or two, is daunting.

As far as predicting a downturn, when your riding up a roller coaster it's fairly safe to predict a coming down. He didn't envision the hole we are in now though, I don't know anyone that did.

[sugarpop]

Well, click on the link I posted. There is a very interesting interview there between Rachel Maddow and Senator Byron Dorgan. Apparently he did.

[Undertoad]

But so what?

One of Limbaugh's favorite tricks is to play an old tape where he has predicted something years ago, and what he has predicted, has come true. This makes Rush seem like an amazingly brilliant analyst and prognosticator. Is it the case?

No. However it IS the case that if you speculate for hours every day, on air, that some of your speculations will come true. Bound to happen.

Senators are generally blowhards who love to hear the sound of their own voice. On any issue you can find Senators who blow hard one way about it, and others who blow hard the other way about it. And they're often on air.

Was Dorgan right about the policy matter, absolutely. Is he an amazingly brilliant analyst and prognosticator, no. He's a politician.

[sugarpop]

whatever.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

It isn't what he says, usually. It's the obnoxious, long winded, filled with irrelevant repeated crap, way he says it. Refusing to clarify his statements (even when asked politely), and attacking anyone who dares to ask.

Most people's eyes glaze over half way through his posts, if they don't ignore them completely. It's really a shame he shoots himself in the foot, because although I don't often agree with him, he usually has something valid to add. But sifting through a multi thousand word post to find the points that could be made in a sentence or two, is daunting.

Very well put.

[TheMercenary]

The Big Takeover... A RollingStone review.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...takeover/print

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So did tw, but would y'all listen? Noooooo.

I never predicted this depression. Only those who let 'reasons why' cause eyes to glaze over would assume otherwise. But I did predict the resulting downturn when a clear majority were even claiming the roller coaster was normal growth. Not in 1999 as you probably intentionally posted. Obviously, in early 2000 when most of the problems were create or had become obvious.

How many suddenly forget that they advocated putting SS money into the markets - because a majority or dominate minority did not see the obvious roller coaster? Don't remember - were you one of the many who advocated putting SS into private investments?

Long ago when right wing fools were citing Kennedy tax cuts, who was a few who also warned (correctly) of a resulting economic downturn predicted by that history? Those who advocated those Kennedy tax cuts should be admitting they ignored posted details, long posts necessary to explain those details, and realities from history.

Eyes also glazed over when many denied a housing crisis in 2005. Many only want to see a soundbyte declaration (which is why Rush Limbaugh is so popular); cannot be bothered to read the extra 1000 words necessary to understand that problem. But then even I did not expect it to be this bad. I was only predicting a 20% or greater drop. A majority ignored details (because the post was too long) and now forget who was again accurate on the big stuff - and making extremists angry.

tw also defined GM long ago as a crappy company with clearly inferior products. Today, so many who were in denial back then must now admit reality. Unfortunately that reality - especially the many reasons why - were not posted enough times.

A benchmark for GM was posted what - more than a decade ago when a majority were in denial? The 70 Horsepower per liter engine. So many disagreed only because they *felt* it was wrong. Again, facts posted long ago with numbers that cause eyes to glaze over.

Continuing on the topic: Rick Wagoner never ran a successful operation. So they made him chairman because MBAs dominate and destroy that company. Is that a repeat? Does not matter. A statement must also include supporting reasons why to avoid being a soundbyte lie.

Someone who has been more destructive to America than Saddam Hussein was told to leave. Good. G.M. Chief Is Said to Be Resigning in Deal With U.S.. Pressure from a real leader finally made a solution possible because GM top management, its BoDs, and the still too many customers demonstrated contempt for America. Even so hateful as to even blame employees. Today, GM's first step to rescue began because, as history has proven, 85% of all problems are directly traceable to ... Again, a longer post that also repeats a fact because only good posts also say why - even if why was said before.

A long list of major facts from destruction of science, "Mission Accomplished", an "America does not do nation building" lie, the auto industry, housing crisis, finance people and the heavy regulation that must always exist, factors necessary to justify any war, dangers of wacko extremism and its similarity to Hitler's brown shirts, welfare to the rich, destruction of America's worldwide integrity, Enron accounting, destruction of international treaties, Saddam's WMDs, corporate welfare (ie 40% higher drug prices), the greatest threat to America (which is obviously Pakistan), American torture and extraordinary rendition (which means some George Jr administration people need to answer to subpoenas for their arrest), global warming, where 85% of all problems are created, mythical Al Qaeda in Iraq, or even the obvious and simple "when do we go after bin Laden". That's quite a long list of accurate challenges to extremism.

Even I did not foresee an economy this bad. And I did not post the reasons for it in 1999 as was intentionally posted to deceive. Those reasons and supporting facts posted in early 2000s and after.

But again, another detail that might make eyes glaze over. tw identified GMs #1 problem long ago when it was not popular - just accurate. Finally someone with a centrists attitude has done what nobody in GM or its customers would demand. Rick Wagoner has been removed from GM meaning another part of the American economy is being fixed by removing another early 2000 problem. The list of things necessary to save the American economy is long and has long been ignored by the powers that once were.

And so the recovery slowly begins despite what wacko extremists even post here. Some of the reasons why we know - posted above.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The Big Takeover... A RollingStone review.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...takeover/print

Shit Merc, you just want to piss me off more than I already am don'tcha? Well, at least this article gives me some satisfaction in knowing there are still people out there who agree with me about rich pricks on Wall Street.