Immigration Enforcement Un-American?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

They are criminals.

Only if you consider speeders, jaywalkers and trespassers as criminals.

[TheMercenary]

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Only if you consider speeders, jaywalkers and trespassers as criminals.

Those are not federal crimes.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Those are not federal crimes.

Neither is illegal immigration...it is a civil NOT criminal violation of federal law.

Ignorance of the difference between civil and criminal violations is no excuse.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Redux

Treating persons who commit a civil violation as criminals yet denying them the rights given to criminals -the right to counsel, the right to a speedy hearing or trial, the right to post bond or a bond hearing, etc. - debases the rule of law which is the very fabric of our country.

Trial? Counsel? WTF?

LE: Do you have proper legal authorization to be in the US?

Illegal: Nope.

LE: Get the fuck out. Here's a one way ticket to Siberia.

What can counsel do here? It's not like even the smoothest lawyer can convince a judge the illegal in custody wasn't in the US... which happens to be the violation in question.

What trial is necessary? Get the fuck out.

Keep in mind I fully support opening the borders to anyone who can pass an appropriate background check and follows a much improved and streamlined process for gaining legal access. I also fully support crushing into dust anyone who circumvents that system. I also fully support revoking the business license of any company found to knowingly employ illegals.

Originally Posted by lookout123

Trial? Counsel? WTF?

LE: Do you have proper legal authorization to be in the US?

Illegal: Nope.

LE: Get the fuck out. Here's a one way ticket to Siberia.

What can counsel do here? It's not like even the smoothest lawyer can convince a judge the illegal in custody wasn't in the US... which happens to be the violation in question.

What trial is necessary? Get the fuck out.

Keep in mind I fully support opening the borders to anyone who can pass an appropriate background check and follows a much improved and streamlined process for gaining legal access. I also fully support crushing into dust anyone who circumvents that system. I also fully support revoking the business license of any company found to knowingly employ illegals.

Immigrants who are held under a civil violation of illegal entry have a right to a "speedy" deportation hearing and a right to legal counsel. That is the law.

Immigrants who commit a criminal act while here illegally may lose such rights to a deportation hearing.

[lookout123]

My point is the trial should be pretty damn short. It should have exactly one question to answer. Do you or do you not have legal authorization to be in the US? If the answer is no, get out. I don't care about kids, wives, cousins, or jobs. Those wouldn't have been an issue if you hadn't broken the law in the first place. Get out.

Criminal trials are different in that they should be tried just as anyone else and be found guilty or innocent of the charges the same as anyone else. If they are innocent they still need to get out. If they are guilty they need to serve their sentence and then get out.

[DanaC]

What can counsel do here? It's not like even the smoothest lawyer can convince a judge the illegal in custody wasn't in the US... which happens to be the violation in question.

Unless they can be proved to have a case for asylum.


[eta] we engage in much the same behaviour over here towards failed asylum seekers. Worse probably. Given how incredibly easy it is to 'fail' an asylum application that means there are likely to be people who've fled from the vilest persecution and violence being dragged from their hostels in the early hours of the morning and shoved on a plane to their (categorised 'safe') country of origin. A recent example was a man who was sent back to Afghanistan wherupon he was brutally killed by the Taleban (the people he'd been fleeing from). I know of several people who've been forcibly returned to Zimbabwe, Republic of Congo, Iraq. Several have 'disappeared' in their country, others are known to have been killed. I know of torture victims, bodies criss crossed with damage whose applications have been refused and their torture disbelieved. A recent investigation into the immigration system characterised it as operating a 'culture of disbelief'. This is how a 16 year old boy becomes recatergorised as 26 (there's a form they fill in where they assign age if no proof of birthdate can be provided. My mum's dealt with several such cases) and then held in an adult detention centre; or how an 8 year old boy alone in the country could be left without assistance or legal counsel and then have his case dismissed for a 'lack of credibility'.

I'm not sure if they actually brought it in yet, but there was talk recently of a change in the law to allow lone children to be deported to their country of origin. A fucking Labour government. Thatcher wouldn't have dared.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Redux

Illegal immigration is not a criminal act....it is a civil violation.

It's the other crimes they commit after they enter illegally that really pisses people off. Why should citizens bother with getting drivers licenses and car insurance when illegals don't have to? Why should we pay our health insurance premiums? Why should we have to get SS#s and pay income tax?

What about the gang violence? What about the full prisons and broke hospitals? It goes a little further than the first civil violation or most people wouldn't even notice...

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Unless they can be proved to have a case for asylum.

That would be an acception. But given the state of war on the other side of El Paso it might be hard to prove they were not fleeing the conflict. But then again it would be an easy excuse.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Neither is illegal immigration...it is a civil NOT criminal violation of federal law.

Ignorance of the difference between civil and criminal violations is no excuse.

They are still criminals. What, you think you are going to get me to say otherwise? They get a night in jail, a judge with a gavel and a cardboard box to float back to where they came from.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Unless they can be proved to have a case for asylum.

Bullshit. Go through the legal process or get out. I don't care why you came illegally, only that you did come illegally. The cop doesn't care too much about my reason for running 80 in a 35 speed zone.

Originally Posted by jinx

It's the other crimes they commit after they enter illegally that really pisses people off.....

Current immigration law addresses that.

Illegal immigrants who commit a criminal act after then enter illegally are subject to immediate deportation. ..but they are the minority.

A recent Associated Press study and story examines the issue of "immigrants facing detention and having few rights."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...ns_few_rights/

[TheMercenary]

Costs associated with illegal immigrants:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalfindings.html