Obama's Dog

Nope...and I'm not with ACORN either (for classic and merc).

I just dont like bullshit from either side of an issue.

If you can document the "underhanded way" these bills are being "bulldozed through state legislatures"....or the IN bill was "sandwiched in with stiffer penalties for rapists and convicted felons"...then I might have a different response.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Nope...and I'm not with ACORN either (for classic and merc).

You can't fool us. You are Bill Clinton aren't you.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

You can't fool us. You are Bill Clinton aren't you.

Nope. I inhaled.

And I still dont eat bullshit sandwiches like that suggested by Nirvana in the case of the IN law.

But when have you ever let the facts get in the way of a discussion.

[Nirvana]

Well Redux what part of that new proposed legislation do you feel is fair to a hobby breeder? The part where the sale of 5 dogs makes them a pet dealer? Large breed dogs frequently have double digit litters so effectively if some hobby breeders have one litter they are automatically a pet dealer? Everyone will have to get their pets from pet mills in the future because they are the only ones that will be able to afford to pay to have animals. Your rights are being taken away and you are looking in another direction. That is so high on the bullshit meter its off the chart!

The whole point is the proposed legislation is BS but you would rather dwell on an aspect that I got wrong. You said you are for ending pet mills and this legislation puts all hobby breeders out of business so you will have no choice if you want a pet but to get it at commercial breeding operations. Duplicity is your friend.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Everyone will have to get their pets from pet mills in the future because they are the only ones that will be able to afford to pay to have animals.

Will the disparity in price be that much? I thought you said what the Why can't you pass the cost on to the consumer like every other business. Price was really not the issue when we were breeding, especially the Goldens. Isn't price in that market still a very low priority for the buyer?

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by classicman

Will the disparity in price be that much? I thought you said what the Why can't you pass the cost on to the consumer like every other business. Price was really not the issue when we were breeding, especially the Goldens. Isn't price in that market still a very low priority for the buyer?

Most hobby breeders do not breed to sell pets to the public. They breed to improve the breed and to enjoy their hobby of showing. If the consumer has a choice to buy cheap imitation products they will spend less money for inferior dogs. Hobby breeders would have to move to avoid mandatory spay and neuter laws that are popping up all over. Say you are buying a really good pedigreed female to start showing and breeding. In my breed that means $2500. On top of that the law in Maine will make it $650 per intact female who could even afford to have pets unless you spay them and you cannot show a neutered animal in conformation? None of the cost mentioned above include health care or feeding. What would the cost of a puppy be? Shall hobby breeders be like milk producers and sell always at a loss?
There will be people selling illegally because of these laws and people will find them and get their cheap poorly bred dogs from them. This is already happening.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Well Redux what part of that new proposed legislation do you feel is fair to a hobby breeder? The part where the sale of 5 dogs makes them a pet dealer? Large breed dogs frequently have double digit litters so effectively if some hobby breeders have one litter they are automatically a pet dealer? Everyone will have to get their pets from pet mills in the future because they are the only ones that will be able to afford to pay to have animals. Your rights are being taken away and you are looking in another direction. That is so high on the bullshit meter its off the chart!

The whole point is the proposed legislation is BS but you would rather dwell on an aspect that I got wrong. You said you are for ending pet mills and this legislation puts all hobby breeders out of business so you will have no choice if you want a pet but to get it at commercial breeding operations. Duplicity is your friend.

What the hell is a "hobby" breeder?