Al Franken...is this for real?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Well, TG, from my international experience, exporting "the United States" and exporting liberty differ only minutely, and the difference if any isn't enough to get crabby about. If you've been outside our borders and seen for yourself, I haven't heard about it.

What we are boils down to "the most successful at it." Being the best example, it's hardly sinful to export it also. It is not in any case a one-way deal.

You might take a read of Thomas P.M. Barnett, too. The guy's scary good and there's a lot of interesting stuff in there. It's even intelligently nonpartisan.

Jingoist? Nah. Therefore, why do you insist on connecting me with jingoism? I'd like to see your argument.

You seem to be siezed with the idea that fascist and communist ideologies are something other than mass miseries. This gross misunderstanding prevents you from coming down on the side of the good, does it not? Where is there anything in fascism, communism, autocracy, or oligarchy that makes them worthy of preservation? This is not fanaticism, this is morals.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Well, TG, from my international experience, exporting "the United States" and exporting liberty differ only minutely, and the difference if any isn't enough to get crabby about. If you've been outside our borders and seen for yourself, I haven't heard about it.

You're equating the United States with liberty. How very odd. Perhaps you can explain to my why that is, when my calls can be listened to, when American citizens get denied due process for years at a time, when I can't walk out and buy the machine gun of my choice, and when a man can get tossed in jail for a decade or three because he has chosen to use the wrong intoxicants?

Or maybe you mean "liberty for the right people. I mean, it's okay to dump on Gays, people with weird little religions, and people who just want to be left the hell alone in whatever mountainside compound they legally purchased? Am I losing the plot here? In short, you get liberty here, so long as you limit your freedom to being like everyone else?

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

What we are boils down to "the most successful at it." Being the best example, it's hardly sinful to export it also. It is not in any case a one-way deal.

Rubbish. We just yell the loudest. And then we drop bombs on people who never hurt us, to "liberate" them. After we "liberate" a few hundred thousand or a few million of them into greasy spots, we finish plundering and leave. What's really funny is that recently, we use foreign wars to plunder our OWN country, to hand it all over to no-bid contractors like the good folks at Halliburton. But that's what America is all about: Motherhood, apple pie, and bloodsucking contractors.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

You might take a read of Thomas P.M. Barnett, too. The guy's scary good and there's a lot of interesting stuff in there. It's even intelligently nonpartisan.

What the hell? I'll give it a read.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Jingoist? Nah. Therefore, why do you insist on connecting me with jingoism? I'd like to see your argument.

Your own post: Our nation is the absolute best at freedom, so we can go jam our way of life down other peoples' throats. Because WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! Classic jingoism.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

You seem to be siezed with the idea that fascist and communist ideologies are something other than mass miseries.

And just where the hell did I say that? Oh, yeah. I didn't. You just made shit up. Please attempt to be more honest. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

This gross misunderstanding prevents you from coming down on the side of the good, does it not?

Depends what you call "good", I suppose.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Where is there anything in fascism, communism, autocracy, or oligarchy that makes them worthy of preservation? This is not fanaticism, this is morals.

That's a hell of a strawman you have there, sir. Where did you get it?