North Korean Missile Test

[capnhowdy]

Kill 'em all. Let God sort 'em out.

The only way to stop the majority from poking you in the goddam eye.

[Kaliayev]

North Korea has always acted crazy in order to force concessions. No-one is fooled by it any more. In the 70s and early 80s, they were truly crazy. Tunnels under the demilitarized zone leading directly into Seoul (which you could march regiments down). Blowing up the entire South Korean cabinet, barring the President, in Rangoon. Infiltration missions down the coast line.

They don't do things by half measures, and if North Korea really wanted to nuke someone, a lack of a missile delivery system would not have stopped them by now. Seal up a warhead in a boat and you can float it into any harbour in the world and let it go boom. They're threatening because they want concessions. Fuel, food, maybe the a DVD of Season 6 of The Shield for Kim...hell, they may even be trying to establish a decent negotiating position for the reunification of the country. Maybe not just yet, but Kim boy won't live forever, and he has few suitable sucessors. Not to mention the country is falling apart.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang

Dude, its a North Korean missile. Shooting it down would be redundant.

Touche'.

Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang

North Korea has always acted crazy in order to force concessions.

Add in the Japanese abductions. The NKs sent commando raids into Japanese coastal areas and islands and abducted scores, maybe hundreds of Japanese citizens, to take back to NK and 're-educate' (brainwash), probably with the idea of returning them as secret agents, or at least using them to train their own agents.

Can anyone say "act of war"? "Causus belli"?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Um, how come we are allowed to wing missiles over the Pacific, every now and then, but they are not?

[Kaliayev]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Add in the Japanese abductions. The NKs sent commando raids into Japanese coastal areas and islands and abducted scores, maybe hundreds of Japanese citizens, to take back to NK and 're-educate' (brainwash), probably with the idea of returning them as secret agents, or at least using them to train their own agents.

Can anyone say "act of war"? "Causus belli"?

Except Japan doesn't have an armed force who can go in and deal with such things (yet). Article Nine of their Constitution specifically forbids them, though as North Korea get more threatening, there will be more popular support for constitutional revision. Also, the (likely) incoming government has made noises to the effect that they do not want to be reliant entirely on American military power, which is usually the stealth argument for remilitarization.

Besides, its a little late to go to war now, since they have been returned.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang

Except Japan doesn't have an armed force who can go in and deal with such things (yet). Article Nine of their Constitution specifically forbids them, though as North Korea get more threatening, there will be more popular support for constitutional revision. Also, the (likely) incoming government has made noises to the effect that they do not want to be reliant entirely on American military power, which is usually the stealth argument for remilitarization.

Besides, its a little late to go to war now, since they have been returned.

You underestimate Japan's "Self Defence Force".
True, a section in the constitution forbids them sending troops overseas. But they have a large and well equipped military oops I mean Self Defence Force. Almost 250,000 troops, and, as examples, more than 800 tanks, 100 F4 Phantom fighter jets, 200 F15 Eagle fighter jets, dozens of destroyers, 18 submarines.

However, you might point out that they lack capacity to deploy force overseas in large amounts. That, and public opinion and the constitution, are the only things holding them back.

According to many Japanese, many abductees have not been returned. I don't know the facts on this.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Have the ones that came back been probed?

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Have the ones that came back been probed?

Thoroughly.

[Kaliayev]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

You underestimate Japan's "Self Defence Force".
True, a section in the constitution forbids them sending troops overseas. But they have a large and well equipped military oops I mean Self Defence Force. Almost 250,000 troops, and, as examples, more than 800 tanks, 100 F4 Phantom fighter jets, 200 F15 Eagle fighter jets, dozens of destroyers, 18 submarines.

However, you might point out that they lack capacity to deploy force overseas in large amounts. That, and public opinion and the constitution, are the only things holding them back.

According to many Japanese, many abductees have not been returned. I don't know the facts on this.

I disagree. The SDF does not attract high calibre recruits, and many can quit at any time (being, technically, civilian forces). Conditions are hardly what would be called "attractive", even by the relatively low standards of military life in general, and their main combat experience has been as U.N. Peacekeepers and in aid relief. They're highly reliant on the USA for any sort of credible form of deterrence. Their navy is incapable of even defending their own vital trade links with the rest of the world.

In addition, there are problems with large deployments and popular opinion yes, though in the case of self-defence the latter would no doubt vanish fairly quickly.

I've heard the stories too, but without evidence they are little more than stories. Lots of people go missing, for lots of reasons. Some people may prefer the idea that their loved ones were taken by force. Its better than imagining they left of their own accord, or are dead. Some may be true, but without evidence...who's to say?

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang

I disagree. The SDF does not attract high calibre recruits, and many can quit at any time (being, technically, civilian forces). Conditions are hardly what would be called "attractive", even by the relatively low standards of military life in general, and their main combat experience has been as U.N. Peacekeepers and in aid relief. They're highly reliant on the USA for any sort of credible form of deterrence. Their navy is incapable of even defending their own vital trade links with the rest of the world.

True, but that is true of most countries. It depends on who they're fighting. Japan Vs North Korea, I'll bet on Japan. Japan Vs China, I bet on China (unless USA jumps in, in which case... arma-bloody-geddon). Japan Vs Australia ... ahh, I don't think we could actually reach each other.

In addition, there are problems with large deployments and popular opinion yes, though in the case of self-defence the latter would no doubt vanish fairly quickly.

Again, true, and again if we are comparing to North Korea I suspect that if push came to shove we would find that a large portion of the people in the NK military only joined because it was the only way to get food on a regulr basis.

I've heard the stories too, but without evidence they are little more than stories. Lots of people go missing, for lots of reasons. Some people may prefer the idea that their loved ones were taken by force. Its better than imagining they left of their own accord, or are dead. Some may be true, but without evidence...who's to say?

Yet again, there are many "possible" abductions, but I do believe there are several certain cases - abductees acknowledged by both govts. As for the rest, you're probably right about some.