Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercenary:
That is the point exactly. It will never be the same. People need to get over it and move on, come up with new and innovative ways to make a living as well as come up with new plans, be willing to change jobs, relearn, etc. But most people are not willing to do that. Why? Now just wait for the government to bail them out. I will not defend the corps that go off shore, but I find it hard to condemn them as well. IMHO that all started with Clinton and NAFTA. It is only because of the current round of massive layoffs that people are now willing to do anything to get by. You want to blame all of this on Corps and that is a simplistic view.
|
Maybe because they're too old? There is such a thing as ageism you know. Maybe there are no jobs out there. Some people cannot afford to move to places where jobs are more prevalent.
I have always blamed Clinton for the beginning of this. In addition, you don't seem to EVER want to lay the blame at the feet of greedy corporate pirates.
Quote:
|
Who says it is their fault? Not me. Who says that corps and "rich people have chosen to hire illegal’s instead of giving jobs to Americans". That is a pretty damm broad sweeping list of allegations on which to blame all of the countries economic ills. I doubt you can back most of it up. How about Corps have gone where labor is cheap because it is a profit driven industry. You have this hard on for anyone who makes money. How about the companies have given jobs to people who are willing to work hard, not the slackers who would rather sit on their ass and complain about how the man is keeping them down and enslaving them while they spit out another baby from some baby daddy? How do you explain the Korean immigrants who moved to the most depressed parts of cities in America and opened hugely successful chains of grocery stores? How about the waves of immigrants from India or Pakistan and have opened huge successful chains of hotels and motels? Where is the American drive to do that among those who started with or had very little to do that? You can't blame Corps and "rich people" for all the ills of this Nation. That is a ridiculous notion. This country was founded on the tenacity, innovation, and investment of "rich people".
|
OMG. I am NOT defending women having babies when they are on welfare. Did you not READ my posts in the thread about that woman? Besides, you KNOW me better than that.
I have nothing but respect and goodwill toward immigrants who come here LEGALLY and make something of themselves. I DO have a beef with people who come here
illegally and take jobs away from Americans and drive down wages. And some of those Americans are hardworking, and do a BETTER job, but they won't work for ridiculous pay. You actually KNOW SOMEONE in that situation. You know I'm telling the truth.
And I'm sorry, but profits should not be the bottom line. Corporations (and the people who own/run them) are allowed to prosper in this country. They should not get tax breaks (which they do) for going overseas to create jobs for cheap labor, in the name of the allmighty dollar, when they are going to bring their products back into the United States to sell. We should learn from the whole crash that Argentina suffered.
Rich people have prospered for the past 3-4 decades while wages for most everyone else have stagnanted. It's time they paid something back.
Quote:
|
So people are greedy if they work hard to get an advanced education and take advantage of a system that rewards hard work? Wow. Envy much?
|
I didn't say that. Please don't put words in my mouth. And why is any ONE kind of work any more worthy than another? IT'S NOT. You are a classist.
Quote:
|
Who gets to say who deserves what in this life? I don't disgree that we have huge sectors of our society that is underpaid and under appreciated. You can't defend a socialist construct to me. I don't buy it.
|
Well apparently those in power get to decide for the masses. Since they are WAY in the minority, they shouldn't get to do that. Especially when they prosper at the expense of everyone else and society as a whole.
Quote:
|
And the millions of illegal aliens, and welfare mothers on the dole.
|
And I am against paying for illegals. But you throw around the word "welfare" very freely. What you really mean is poor people or the middle class who can't afford to pay for health care on their own, because it's SO fucking ridiculously expensive. THAT is because health care costs have risen exponentially for years, since Nixon made health care a business for profit. It never should have happened, and that has caused a HUGE problem in this country, for the people, and also for business. That is another reason why so many corporations have fled offshore, because the health care costs are so high. They can't compete with corporations in other comparable countries because those countries have government-sponsored health care paid for with taxes.
Quote:
|
Many people would disagree with that. You completely ignore the revenue that is gained from attracting millions of people to the events where they then spend money on the local economy.
|
Why is up to taxpayers to pay for stadiums that aren't even in their state? That is ridiculous. It creates revenue for that city, but no one else. I think most of the people who would disagree are people who are profiting from the practice. In fact, why should taxpayers pay for shit like this at all? You rant against taxes and wasteful spending and "pork," well, this is frivolous pork, obviously.
Quote:
|
Actually our high prices of medications pay for that, not our taxes. Get your facts straight.
|
Bullshit. My brother's wife was a VP for a big pharmaceutical company for many, many years. They are highly corrupt, and they don't pay for most of the research, the NIH pays for the research, and they are a government agency paid for with taxes. The high prices we pay (but no other country on earth pays, surprise surprise) pays for the ADVERTISEMENTS, NOT the research.
Quote:
|
I agree we need to get some equilibrium back and inact a flat tax so every single person pays the same rate, regardless of income. You make $1000, you pay $200 to tax. You make $100,000, you pay $20,000. No one gets a pass.
|
No, if you make more, you can afford to PAY more. That is how it works. Until the society we live in is actually equal for everyone, which it isn't, then people who make more should pay more. IF the flat tax was more fair, then I would support it.
Quote:
|
It disturbs me that you judge me about what I do and how I feel. I take care of people everyday who are less fortunate than me.
|
I am not judging what you do, I am judging your words. I know you take care of people, but what if someone came in who was dying, or seriously ill, and they had no health insurance and no way to pay for treatment? What then? I don't think good health care is only for rich people, or people who are still fortunate enough to have insurance through their work. I think it should be for every citizen of this country. Health care should not be about profit, it should be about helping people.
Quote:
|
What if I did? I would sell my assets and start over. And that is why I pay so much for insurance.
|
And what if your insurance company decided they wouldn't pay for some reason? It happens more often than you think, to people who think they have good benefits. And what if you couldn't sell your house? What if you ended up on the street? Wouldn't you want some compassion from your government? Don't you think your taxes should insure you don't end up on the street through no fault of your own?
Quote:
|
Why are you judging my feelings again? There is much I could tell you about my family and their plights in life but it doesn't change the situation they find themselves in right now. And nothing I can say or do will change any of that. How for one fucking minute can you say that because of the plight of your family that I don't have my own issues to deal with concerning family members? What? Because I am not willing to put them on some public board? When times get tough we focus on our own families and issues, not yours. I have no responsibility for your problems or your families, my plate is full.
|
I am judging your feelings, because you are judging mine. I was just giving you an example of how bad things are for people who did nothing to cause these problems, and who have worked as hard as you have, because you seem to think the only people who are in trouble are people who have been living beyond their means, who have not taken the time to educate themselves, or who have not worked as hard as you have. You seem to think only slackers are being negatively affected. That is a serious misconception on your part. I am only trying to make you see that. I apologize if it seems too personal. You know I love you, I'm sorry if I made you feel bad. My belief though, is that as a society, we are all obligated to that society. Our taxes should pay for stuff like this. To me, this is way more important than paying for sports stadiums, or other frivolous stuff.
You implied it is the fault of people who lose their jobs and can't find another one. You have implied, over an over, that the collapse of the economy is not the fault of corporations and the people who run them, but of the people who have lost their jobs.
Quote:
|
Well I know for one thing your simplistic view of who to blame is wrong.
|
Really? Please explain. I have tried to give you examples to show you how your thinking is flawed. Please, show me how I'm wrong.
02-22-2009, 09:24 AM
Hybrid Mode
