Does Anyone feel like Bailing

[smoothmoniker]

If they're doing it up right, $5,000 wouldn't even cover the first round.

[ZenGum]

The deposit issue depends on how long ago it was booked and paid.
It has been clear for a while that things were getting tight. Exactly how long ago it was booked affects the ethics of this.

But think the appearance point trumps it anyway. Even if they could only save 10%, they damn well should have.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by dar512

Remember how whats-his-name was slaughtered for his expensive haircut?

[wistful] I'll never forget what's-his-name[/wistful]

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Where's the liquor bill? Eh, they suck at partyin'

Master 3 total:
9,982.02

Probably drinking well booze.

[classicman]

Back on topic ....

WASHINGTON (AP) - After consulting with Barack Obama, Democratic leaders are likely to call Congress back to work after the election in hopes of passing legislation that would include extended jobless benefits, money for food stamps and possibly a tax rebate, officials said Saturday.

The bill's total cost could reach $150 billion, these officials said.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters in Denver last Wednesday a $150 billion stimulus package is necessary and she may call the House back into session after the election. Her spokesman, Brendan Daly, added, "Congress just worked in a bipartisan way with the Administration to pass an economic rescue plan to help stabilize our financial markets, and we must now work together to pass a jobs creation and economic recovery stimulus package."

I'm all for helping those that need help, but why did they have to bilk us out of $115,000,000,000 first? Why couldn't this have just been part of the original bill? Too many questions? This doesn't seem right.

[dar512]

http://www.allvoices.com/image/20849096

[classicman]

That looks a lot more like the Democratic view.

[classicman]

Insight on Government Rescue Plan
By Dirk Hofschire, CFA Fidelity
October 03, 2008

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Insight on Government Rescue Plan

That Fidelity article discusses some aspects of this financial market meltdown in terms of what the government is doing and hopes to accomplish.

It's not going to stop at $0.7trillion. Expect government to borrow massively to apply something under $2trillion.

Now a larger picture that is concerning many. Recessions are necessary to fix (remove) the reasons for economic mismanagement. That means top management. Unfortunately, this 'emergency' bailout programs will intentionally ignore that need and in many cases will protect the reasons for such problems.

Recessions and bankruptcies, if left to do what is necessary, eliminates bad management while saving employees and stockholders. After all, that is what happened to Ford in 1981, Chrysler in 1979, etc. But if the problem gets protection using spread sheet games (no SEC prosecution, Arthur Andersen fraud, etc), then basic economics mean even the employees and stockholders get punished (Enron, Lehman Bros, AT&T, S&L Crisis, Long Term Capital Management).

This government bailout all but guarantees inflation. Government has no choice because we used easy money to fix the recession rather than what was creating the recession. Years ago, it was obvious that interest rates needed to rise. Instead we dropped interest rates to further inflame a housing market no justified by the productivity in America. And now we are further stuffing the economy with more money without going after the fundamental reasons for this meltdown.

When government throws money at the economy to 'fix' it, then economic forces take revenge years later. We have no doubt that the revenge will be coming. We just don't know exactly when, how severe, or in what form. But we do know what happened last time government threw money at problems. It was never supposed to be possible - massive inflation and recession - called stagflation. Economic forces took revenge on Americans throughout the 1970s because of fiscal irresponsibility especially in Vietnam.

Expect more government welfare checks to big business. And then expect this nation to sell itself to the world to pay for fixing a recession using massive tax cuts, silly tax rebate schemes, ridiculously low interest rates, and legalizing fiscal irresponsibility.

The damage was done years ago even as the president was declaring "Mission Accomplished". Now we pay for government's overt fiscal mismanagement. Cheney said, "Regan proved that deficits don't matter." Wrong again.

[tw]

Some numbers to put all this into perspective.

The world has about something just over $70trillion - all currencies combined. This US financial market meltdown has destroyed about $2trillion. The US will spend another $1trillion on "Mission Accomplished". Government has already spent $0.7trillion on a bailout - expect that number to double. The Defense Dept budget under George Jr has ballooned to $0.7trillion per year. US Federal government debt (treasury bonds et al to pay for our fiscal mismanagement) is somewhere between $5trillion and $8trillion depending on with game is used to measure it. A number that is guaranteed to increase massively and that was quickly approaching zero during Clinton's time.

For twenty years, America had seen a fairly constant growth rate. With 2000, and once we eliminate the distortions of inflation and economic wealth fueled by debts not yet paid, America has seen little if any economic growth. For all these GNP increases, we also have incurred massive debts that have still to be paid - such as most of the $trillion for "Mission Accomplished".

Get yourself financially stable. The numbers have long suggested that things could be getting much nastier. We still don’t know how many more ponzi schemes will collapse. Too many unknowns still remain.


We know this. The average American income has dropped 2% while welfare to the rich has significantly widened the difference between rich and poor. This occurred once previously in American history – just before 1929. Get out now from under credit cards and car payments.

[xoxoxoBruce]

1920 to date.

[ZenGum]

Fascinating link, Bruce.

Although I notice they say the stock market fell by exactly 22.6% on October 28, 1929 AND October 19, 1987. If that is correct, it is a most curious coincidence.

[xoxoxoBruce]

1929 dropped 22.6% of the total market value.
1987 dropped 22.6% of the Dow Jones Index.
Coincidence? Conspiracy? Clusterfuck!

[tw]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Although I notice they say the stock market fell by exactly 22.6% on October 28, 1929 AND October 19, 1987. If that is correct, it is a most curious coincidence.

Not coincidence according to research on this subject identifying factors such as weather. A topic not relevant to a far more serious problem.

For any American - living well this past eight years? Do you measure your well being based upon daily consumption? Or realize your real net worth?

Bruce's citation notes a 15% increase in credit card debt. So what happens when credit card interest rates exceed 22% and 25% - as lessons from the 1970s suggest?

When George Jr took office, the average American owed the equivalent to 80% of disposible income. Today that number is between 120% and 140%. Debt increased that dangerously high. Meantime (with inflation) the average American income dropped 2%. Finance markets suggest a probability of the worst recession since WWII.

Did I get your attention? You may still have a few years to protect yourself.
From the Washington Post of 23 Oct 2008:

Job Losses Accelerate, Signaling Deeper Distress
... for many companies, the pullback in hiring is not a direct result of tightening credit. Rather, firms simply don't know whether their own customers will be affected by the financial crisis; as a result, they want to hold their breath and delay hiring decisions until they have a better sense of the future. ...
What's particularly noteworthy, Holley said, is what's happening in Phoenix. Job applications have held steady, but since September more applicants have had backgrounds in general labor and warehouse distribution. That's unusual because warehouse and logistics jobs usually hold steady in the fall to support retailing for holiday shopping.

Job loses are currently defensive in nature. The inevitable inflation has not yet appeared. You may have two years to get secure.

[Pico and ME]

Secure? As in reducing debt?