Times are tough all over

[Pico and ME]

Unfortunately and as a result, we are now doing it with literally the entire value of both the Federal Reserve and US Treasury. Yes, even those institutions have run into monetary shortages by issuing so much corporate welfare.

This is why I am fretting about my simple savings account. Everyone I talk to tells me not to worry, its protected by the FDIC, but with banks continuing to tank, when mine reaches that point, will the government really be able to back up my money?

I wish I didnt have to worry about this.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by lookout123

1) Home ownership changed from being the American Dream to the American Expectation.

I think I said something like this in the "Finger Pointing" thread when people tried to narrow it to a specific political party.

Greed drove the market to sell off the American dream, along with the paint for the pickett fence. Greed is not a political affiliation.....I have known libs. and conservatives bent on selling this dream.

On the other hand: It was also job opportunity for a great many people, and I am sorry to see that they have no income now either.

[DanaC]

1) Home ownership changed from being the American Dream to the American Expectation.

This is the biggie for me. This is the huge cultural shift that fed the rest. It happened here too. Owning a home became an expected part of being an adult; renting meanwhile, became stigmatised at all but the highest levels (executive let). Council housing (social housing projects) which had been the mainstay of working-class housing for a long time became associated with the underclass.

When I was a kid, one of the first things most of my friends did when they hit 18 was get their name on the Council's housing list. Unless you were pretty well off this is what you did when you grew up.

I know lots of people have said to me over the years, why don't I buy a house, instead of throwing my money away renting. Answer? I have never felt financially stable enough to risk taking on that level of debt and potentially having my home taken off me. I rent, I dont accrue more than a few hundred in debt and if I end up unemployed I can claim help with that rent. Whatever the economic climate there will always be landlords. I don't need to own a house, I just need to be able to live in one.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

This is why I am fretting about my simple savings account. Everyone I talk to tells me not to worry, its protected by the FDIC,

If government runs out of cash (and cannot borrow more from foreigners), then it will print money. You will have that money whether in a bank or under a mattress. And if the government prints money, your cash depletes in value equally whether in a bank or under a mattress.

Worry not about your bank. Worry more (or prosper) about what happens when the markets finally find a new value for America. This market crash (and the resulting upturn) is about discovering what America was really worth. The American economy was clearly overvalued due to so much bad equities. This market crash is finance markets desperately seeking our actual net worth AND for economic forces to take revenge for the money games.

In the short term, this is a stunning opportunity for people like me who never get out of markets, but saw this coming, and got out completely many months ago. For others who stayed put, expect to lose at least 20% because the American economy (like housing prices) was probably at least 20% overvalued.

Typically, markets overshoot in the downturn, and then rise up to what is a corrected market value. Obviously, everyone with cash is waiting for this market to find that bottom (at least a 35% downturn), then ride the wave back up to a new and lower American economy value (probably something below 20%).

When will it end? We don’t know. Too many shady institutions have not yet been punished by economic forces. One such possibility is hedge funds who I suspect are currently getting corrected which would explain the latest multi-hundred point market drop.

Worry not about your bank account. Worry more about how this economy, your job, and your government services may/must change now that America is revalued.

[Cicero]

I'm with you (Dana). The only way I will do it is if it is paid for all in cash plus some for renovations. This is not going to happen until I win the lottery.

And:

My husband and I can't stay in one place for long enough to really make it worth it. Not for now. When we are older and have the cash we might think about it. And by then maybe the dollar will be worth something again. Dunno. I love not worrying about the upkeep of the entire property when the pace at work gets too heavy.

I live in a place I could not afford to own. It's awesome and I love it. It really doesn't have to be mine for me to get pleasure from it.

[Pico and ME]

Cheap gas actually started all of this.

Well, thats what Kunstler says.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I rent, I dont accrue more than a few hundred in debt and if I end up unemployed I can claim help with that rent. Whatever the economic climate there will always be landlords. I don't need to own a house, I just need to be able to live in one.

This works as long as you have other investments. One reason that home ownership is encouraged: a home is the only investment that so many have. The home mortgage *requires* him to invest in something. If you don't have a mortgage, then you should be investing continuously in some other equity.

Mortgage makes it easy for one to accumulate some wealth by forcing homeowners to keep making those payments - to keep investing in their net worth.

[Undertoad]

The greedy* homeowners that took ARMs are now again being greedy* by defaulting when their home loses value, instead of just sticking with the program and paying until things get better.

*in this context, "greedy" means behaving pretty much like everyone else in the culture.

[classicman]

tw - you are a pompous ass and back on ignore you go. You repeatedly blamed ARMs and I countered every time. You denied and attempted to refute my points with half truths and conveniently avoided the question put to you 4 times. You disregard anything that doesn't fit into your little preconceived notions and any culpability implicating anyone other than GWB and the EVIL republicans. That is your game - You are as extreme left as UG is right. Buh bye

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The greedy* homeowners that took ARMs are now again being greedy* by defaulting when their home loses value, instead of just sticking with the program and paying until things get better.

*in this context, "greedy" means behaving pretty much like everyone else in the culture.

Are you refering to my post about greed in some way? Or are you calling homeowners greedy with a hint of sarcasm, or are you seriously saying homeowners were greedy? This is hard for me to read, if you are serious or not.

[HungLikeJesus]

I think tw's been quite reasonable lately.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by DanaC

When I was a kid, one of the first things most of my friends did when they hit 18 was get their name on the Council's housing list. Unless you were pretty well off this is what you did when you grew up.

This is what happens here, with generation after generation being dependent on welfare. I didn't realize it was the norm in the UK.

[tw]

Originally Posted by tw

Classicman – do you realize that is equivalent to blaming an ant for causing you to stumble? Can you deal with the absurdity of your ‘research’ rather than take it as a personal attack?

So how does classicman respond? More personal attacks.

Originally Posted by classicman

tw - you are a pompous ass and back on ignore you go.

[glatt]

So is anyone else willing to admit that they rode this market down? We've got a couple Dwellars who say they saw this months ago and got out before the crash. I remember a thread back a few months ago where lookout asked if we were positioned where we should be. I don't know if that was supposed to be a subtle warning, but I ended up taking a long view after reading that thread and staying in the stock market.

So did you all get out months ago? Or don't any of you have 401ks?

I know it's tacky to talk about personal money, and I'm not asking for any details, but is anyone else wincing when they look at their 401k accounts? Or am I the only dummy?

My 401k is down 31% from one year ago, and I've been pumping money regularly into it for that entire year, so when you consider that, it's even worse.

[Shawnee123]

I dunno...I have PERS and don't know a damn thing about it.