7/2/2003: "Finger" of God

[richlevy]

Originally posted by joydriven

> Please don't get the impression that I place stock in "my version" of God. If the God of the Bible is real, it does not matter what my perception of Him is. It does not matter what I think or say, nor what you think or say. God is very absolute in the Bible--...........

Responding or rejecting the truth is our privilege, but we will be held accountable for our choices.

Well, your perception does matter if it effects the way you behave in society. Suicide bombers, for example, impose their religious and political beliefs on those around them. As long as when you say 'held accountable', you mean by G-d himself, then there is no problem.

On the other hand, the truth of the Bible is by its own nature offensive to people because of their own nature.

The truth of the Bible is not offensive in itself, it is only offensive in its interpretation and delivery by a significant number of people (hopefully only a minority) who use it to denigrate and criticize the choices and beliefs of those around them.

> You're correct. The Bible says itself that it's impossible for a regular Joe who says there is no God to be able to understand the things of God. The only reason I have any inkling what I'm talking about is because I've submitted to the Bible's authority as absolute truth and am trying to learn about God from it.

Personally, I'm not sure about that. I can appreciate sitting in a comfortable chair without knowing that it was built by a master carpenter.

As far as the Bible's authority being absolute, please remember to take Leviticus with a large grain of salt. I'd hate to see you go to jail for burning fortunetellers, even 'Miss Cleo'. And since the ranks of adulterers now includes one US President, I'd keep the stones in my pocket if I was you.

> You think it's ok to lightly mock my God. I think it's ok to lightly mock your favorite soda. What slays me is how it is fine for you to indicate I'm impossible to please and foolish for placing my faith in a source which, in your limited perception, based upon your limited knowledge and experience, is an inadequate/unworthy object of anyone's faith. If you'll note, I wasn't mocking atheism/agnosticism. I wasn't knocking free speech. I wasn't seeking to convert anyone. I wasn't even trying to rain on anyone's parade. So I fail to see why you see a need to launch an attack like the above. The inconsistency of expected tolerance levels blows my mind.

I agree that it is rude to mock one's beliefs, but we (and I include myself here) are a rude bunch. And one favorite sport is taking potshots at absolutists on any topic. The statement "____ is the one true ____" is like waving a red flag, whether the subjects are Christianity/faith, Apple/computer, Libertarianism/party. In the Cellar, dogma puts you in the doghouse. Even I, in my misspent youth, have flamed and been flamed in return.

Speaking of flames, one reason that there is an undercurrent of hostility towards the New Testament (and sometimes Old Testament), is that there are Jews, Muslims, Protestants, and pagans (Pagans?) on this board, and our ancestors have gotten burned (literally) in the past by people holding a bible in one hand and a torch in the other. I personally believe that G-d is love, but there is a definite mean streak in his disciples which has never really been addressed. In fact, the words 'act of faith', which can mean giving to charity or an act of benevolence, when translated as 'AUTO DA FE', have a terrible definition. If you do not know it, I recommend that you look it up.

I wish you well in your journey, I count among my friends many who consider themselves devout in the traditional sense. I have discussed religion with Muslims, Jews, Chiristians, and pagans (Pagans?). My personal belief is that no living human has all of the answers about G-d and creation, but that that does not mean we should not seek them.

BTW, I recommend
Constantine's Sword: The Church and the Jews: A History. I still have not finished it, but I would be happy to discuss it with someone.