Why is my teen-age daughter stealing?...

[Aliantha]

I realize you may have had no choice in what you did from your point of view Dana, but just to say a little more on the whole supermarket chain not being personal; what about how theft puts the prices up for those people who are already stuggling to put food on the table legally? In that way, it's as good as stealing from people directly.

Personally I don't have that much of an issue with kids stealing. A lot of kids will do it once or twice, and usually get caught or just go home and feel so shamed they never do it again. For some kids it's part of the learning curve. I know when I was little, I took a couple of 1 cent lollies off the counter when no one was looking, but it was never something I would have contemplated as an adult. I just find it odd that you don't think what you've done was wrong or that it didn't harm anyone. It did mate, whether you need to tell yourself otherwise or not.

[DanaC]

I just find it odd that you don't think what you've done was wrong or that it didn't harm anyone.

I never said that. I said I wasn't ashamed of it. I don't feel shame for much that I have done in life. I don't look back at my 19 year old self and reach harsh judgements. Nor did I say it harmed nobody. I did, however, say I view it differently to the way I would view, say, snatching somebody's purse, or breaking into their house.

I'm not quite sure what kind of mea culpa people are currently expecting, for foolish things done in youth. I do not think it is the worst thing someone can do. In certain circumstances, it can seem like the obvious solution. Obviously, I would not do the same thing now, because I am better resourced (emotionally) to deal with life and have a much better understanding of the hidden effects of such activities (such as the rising prices).

Do I regret doing what I did as a kid? No. There's very little in my life that I can truly say I regret.

[Aliantha]

Sorry, I just thought that when you said you were ambivalent about it you meant you didn't have any feeling about it either way.

[DanaC]

I did. I don't feel bad about doing it. I don't think it was a particularly good solution, and I certainly wouldn't advocate it as a survival strategy, but I made my decisions based on the situation I was in, and my relationship with the world, at the time. I woldn't go back and change anything. I learned some valuable things during that time. I learned a good deal about how people can be when none of you have anything.

[Aliantha]

Oh well, I guess you're giving back to the community in a different way now. What goes around comes around.

[DanaC]

*smiles* That's because I am no longer a fucked up 19 year old nihilist with light fingers and an empty cupboard:P


[eta] better throw in a manic depressive boyfriend on a six-month downswing and incapable of looking after himself, and a bunch of slightly dubious and even more criminally minded housemates who'd elected to 'look after' us, since we landed at their hearth. Strange days. Passed in a blur. Learned more during those years than I care to recall, of despair. But I also learned a good deal about people. I saw, and experienced, a side of life that many of my contemporaries didn't. Whilst my school mates were off in university or the world of work, I slipped through the cracks and went somewhere very different. But the people I met...look past the shambolic exterior and the faint aura of latent violence and there were some wonderful characters. I've written about them before, I'll not bore you with them again :P If I wrote about them, people would say they were fictitious, and in some ways maybe they were. We mythologise our friends to each other.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I wasn't ashamed of it. ~snip~ I don't feel bad about doing it. ~snip~ I wouldn't go back and change anything.

I stole things and did things as a boy also - I think most people did, but at this point in your life to look back and not feel regret, based on years of reading your posts, shocks the hell outta me. I'm still having trouble grasping the concept of "It was ok to take from someone else because _ _ _ _."
I did things as a teen and even into my early 20's that I could justify, but were still wrong nonetheless and I know that and look back, as you put it, harshly. I am absolutely ashamed of some things I did and feel regret for doing them ever time I think about them. It makes me think about thing more know than ever. I put myself on the other side of the equation more and wonder how I would feel if "that action" was done to me.

[Clodfobble]

Put it another way: if you encountered a young person in a similar situation as you used to be, and they told you they were going to go steal some food, would you say, "Okay, sounds reasonable," or would you counsel them to make the better, more responsible choices that you see now that you could have made?

[DanaC]

Put it another way: if you encountered a young person in a similar situation as you used to be, and they told you they were going to go steal some food, would you say, "Okay, sounds reasonable," or would you counsel them to make the better, more responsible choices that you see now that you could have made?

Well, given how many times I have already stated that I don't consider it a sensible choice and would not take that path were I in that situation again, obviously I'd counsel them against.

I put myself on the other side of the equation more and wonder how I would feel if "that action" was done to me.

Precisely. I put myself in the place of the manager of a large supermarket or the shareholders of the chain and I find it very difficult to imagine that I'd be upset by minor pilfering. I may be annoyed by it. I may find it bothersome. I very much doubt I would feel personally violated. I would, however, if I was burgled.

The few things that I genuinely regret and feel shame for are those things that have affected other people at a much more personal and direct level.

And that, my friends, is the last I intend to say on the subject. I am quite comfortable with who I am and how I got here. I am more than content to be my own judge thankyou.

[classicman]

Sorry Dana - I didn't mean to come off as judging you - I guess I just had this perception of you and what you shared really didn't fit with it. I'm sorry if I was outta line.

[DanaC]

I have actually mentioned this stuff before, you must have missed it :P

[monster]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Put it another way: if you encountered a young person in a similar situation as you used to be, and they told you they were going to go steal some food, would you say, "Okay, sounds reasonable," or would you counsel them to make the better, more responsible choices that you see now that you could have made?

I'd give them some food and then worry about giving advice.

[ZenGum]

Stores factor the cost of shoplifting ("shrinkage") into their prices. So if you don't steal, they're getting money for free. They're stealing from you. So always steal about 1.5% of your groceries by value. It is the only honest thing to do.

[ : throws cat amongst pigeons : ]

[Sundae]

I get what your saying Dana. It's not, "Hey it's okay to steal food kids, it doesn't hurt anyone but Fat Cats!" What you're saying is it doesn't have the same personal effect as - say - befriending old Mrs Jones and lifting a fiver a week from the stash in her tea caddy. It's not about whether stealing is wrong, it's about whether some thefts have more emotional impact than others.

At that age I was busy throwing emotional tantrums and being manipulative to get what I wanted and confusing sexual attention with love. I started drinking as an excuse for the things I wanted to do and wasn't brave enough to admit to doing sober. I put myself in danger in quite a few ways in my late teens, but nothing I couldn't pretend hadn't happened in the morning.

Your 19 year old self sounds so much more fucked up than mine - and yet you learned from it, moved on and are at a very good place in your life. Mine was a less scary form of fucked-uppery to outward appearance (i.e. parents, employers), but I believe I am still dealing with issues I had then.

[DanaC]

I'd give them some food and then worry about giving advice.

Excellent.


@ Sundae. Oh I dunno *grins* I suspect me an' thee were both on a par we just expressed it in very different forms of madness:P Wolf, in a way, nailed it somewhat for me. Not now, but at the time. The Jean Val John thing? I escaped life by becoming my own anti-hero. I remember, very clearly, as a young woman trying to project a kind of restless energy and disturbing undercurrents. *Shrugs* worked for me :P It was only really as a grown-up looking back that I realised I was actually as wild and leftfield as I had so wanted to be. At the time I desperately wnted to break out and away. Drop out totally and utterly and follow a life without boundaries. All fed into with 60s imagery and a love of Bob Dylan. I wanted to be wild. I felt wild inside. I wanted to make who I was reflect that maelstrom. But I didn't see it that way. I just saw it as wanting to have fun and wild adventures. I wanted to be part of a wild scene, right at its centre.

Everybody else (discount anyone living the 9-5 life frm this, I saw that as the ultimate defeat) seemed to be having a wilder and more fun time. I wanted the free-form student life, without the studies :P It's only really as an adult I see how close to what I wanted my life actually was much of that time. It's a little like looking at a photo of yourself at 18 and thinking "Why couldn't I see then that I was beautiful?"

So, stuff like the stealing? Honestly, what I remember, I remember with access to the thrill that accompanied it at the time and my own sense of pride as I 'beat the system'. Stupid? Yeah. But I know what was going on in my head at the time. I like recalling those times. The sharp edges have been blunted by time and what's left is just the landscape of young adulthood. A pleasant place to visit.

Particularly pleasant since I gave up all semblance of wildness long ago. I kept hold of some of the eccentricity though. Why the fuck not, I earned it :P