The Supreme Court May Finally Do Something Right!

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I'm so mad I could shoot you in the face. But, but, but...luckily my reasoning takes over and I realize you might shoot me in the face back.

Puh, just penis substitutes for you big mocko men. You bore me silly. You and your "statistics."

Speaking of gross, looked in your mirror lately?

Things are not that simple. Come on. Give us a break. You are making a bunch of assumptions about gun owners.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Well, DanaC, you're reduced to complaining at my tone. That tells me you are completely out of persuasive arguments for your point of view contrasted with mine. Capitalism wins out over socialism again, Right trumps Left. Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn summed it up: "Right is right." He left his reader to draw the conclusion about the Left.

This is usually the outcome when someone tangles with me on this field. I am not lacking in intellect myself -- and like you, my intellect leads me to the stances I take, and shows me what's wrong with the others. I'm able to articulate what's wrong, too. Frankly, very few of my opponents get that far. You can read what they wrote, and they just can't do it. As the observation has it, recorded in various forms from the late nineteenth century through Clemenceau and Churchill: "If you aren't a socialist [earlier: liberal] at twenty you have no heart; if you're still a socialist [earlier: aren't a conservative] at forty you have no brain." By this standard, I've always been blessed with a brain. This is why my opposition ends up in a corner.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Well, DanaC, you're reduced to complaining at my tone. That tells me you are completely out of persuasive arguments for your point of view contrasted with mine. Capitalism wins out over socialism again, Right trumps Left. Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn summed it up: "Right is right." He left his reader to draw the conclusion about the Left.

This is usually the outcome when someone tangles with me on this field. I am not lacking in intellect myself -- and like you, my intellect leads me to the stances I take, and shows me what's wrong with the others. I'm able to articulate what's wrong, too. Frankly, very few of my opponents get that far. You can read what they wrote, and they just can't do it. As the observation has it, recorded in various forms from the late nineteenth century through Clemenceau and Churchill: "If you aren't a socialist [earlier: liberal] at twenty you have no heart; if you're still a socialist [earlier: aren't a conservative] at forty you have no brain." By this standard, I've always been blessed with a brain. This is why my opposition ends up in a corner.

I disagree. I've found you lacking in the intellect department on a few occasions, and I have yet to see your intellect or debating skills back anyone into a corner. While we can agree that socialism is always a failure and pure capitalism is always a success, this to me is merely stating the obvious.

As far as "right is right" goes, I also disagree with that. I don't think any polarized position is tenable. This is why libertarians are accused of being leftist by those on the right and of being right-wingers by those on the left. I support freedom in all cases. I support the non-initiation of force in all cases, which isn't to say I am against the use of force...just not initiating it. It's ok to use force against those who are using force to infringe upon your property, person, or rights.

This is why your foreign policy views are so backwards. You support the initiation of force to enforce your own personal view of what freedom means. You support misusing our military for actions that are not in our own defense. You support going around the world bullying people into submission and making enemies, and keeping us in a perpetual state of unnecessary war.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Radar

While we can agree that socialism is always a failure and pure capitalism is always a success, this to me is merely stating the obvious.

Albania
Albania
You border on the Adriatic
Your land is mostly mountainous
And your chief export is chrome.

Albania: the place that sucks so hard even Capitalism didn't work. What you say, I thought Capitalism was perfect. We have to revise that: *nearly* perfect.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Results of Albania's efforts were initially encouraging. Led by the agricultural sector, real GDP grew by an estimated 11% in 1993, 8% in 1994, and more than 8% in 1995, with most of this growth in the private sector. Annual inflation dropped from 25% in 1991 to single-digit numbers. The Albanian currency, the lek, stabilized. Albania became less dependent on food aid. The speed and vigor of private entrepreneurial response to Albania's opening and liberalizing was better than expected.

Beginning in 1995, however, progress stalled, with negligible GDP growth in 1996 and a 9% contraction in 1997. A weakening of government resolve to maintain stabilization policies in the election year of 1996 contributed to renewal of inflationary pressures, spurred by the budget deficit which exceeded 12%. Inflation approached 20% in 1996 and 50% in 1997. The collapse of financial pyramid schemes in early 1997 - which had attracted deposits from a substantial portion of Albania's population - triggered severe social unrest which led to more than 1,500 deaths, widespread destruction of property, and an 8% drop in GDP. The lek initially lost up to half of its value during the 1997 crisis, before rebounding to its January 1998 level of 143 to the dollar. The new government, installed in July 1997, has taken strong measures to restore public order and to revive economic activity and trade.

50% inflation. Pyramid schemes. 1500 deaths. Bouncing currency values. Widespread destruction of property. These are not the signals of success you were expecting. These are extreme market failures. Capitalism almost always works... although sometimes it doesn't. But that's the human condition in a nutshell.

[jinx]

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Albania
Albania
You border on the Adriatic
Your land is mostly mountainous
And your chief export is chrome.

Albania: the place that sucks so hard even Capitalism didn't work. What you say, I thought Capitalism was perfect. We have to revise that: *nearly* perfect.



50% inflation. Pyramid schemes. 1500 deaths. Bouncing currency values. Widespread destruction of property. These are not the signals of success you were expecting. These are extreme market failures. Capitalism almost always works... although sometimes it doesn't. But that's the human condition in a nutshell.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Albania a former Eastern block nation? My guess is any kind of attempt they made at capitalism, wasn't really capitalism. They probably didn't even understand what capitalism really means. Pyramid schemes aren't capitalism and nor is any system that requires government force to exist. My guess is they had some form of highly regulated system with capitalist leanings that didn't work because it was stifled.

Capitalism is the free and voluntary exchange of goods or services on a value for value basis. Any third party involvement on the part of the government in these exchanges disqualifies this from being capitalism.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Radar

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Albania a former Eastern block nation? My guess is any kind of attempt they made at capitalism, wasn't really capitalism. They probably didn't even understand what capitalism really means.

I'm saving this quote. For when Dana next explains that Communism as practised in the 20th century is not soemthing she would advocate. It's usually decreied as a twisty excuse, so I'm pleased to see there are examples at the other end of the spectrum.

BTW I still remember that Cheers episode.
I bet this weekend if I start singing "Albania, Albania" my brother will join in...
I honestly thought that was just a family thing!

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

I'm saving this quote. For when Dana next explains that Communism as practised in the 20th century is not soemthing she would advocate. It's usually decreied as a twisty excuse, so I'm pleased to see there are examples at the other end of the spectrum.

By all means save it, but it does nothing to bolster that argument. Communism started off with all of the altruistic intents of Marx but eventually it led to totalitarianism because it must. It always does because it violates human nature.

All I'm saying is merely calling something "capitalism" doesn't make it so. Capitalism didn't fail in Albania. Albania failed to implement real capitalism.

This has nothing to do with my "mental model" of capitalism. It has to do with the reality that capitalism doesn't require force to exist and everything else does and because capitalism is purely voluntary. I'm not saying capitalism is perfect....just closer to perfection than any other economic system ever devised.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Things are not that simple. Come on. Give us a break. You are making a bunch of assumptions about gun owners.

Oh lord, there's that poor "us" (a refreshing pause from "we" and "they").

Did you read my last post in this thread? Yeah? Then shut up. Cock. :p

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Oh lord, there's that poor "us" (a refreshing pause from "we" and "they").

Did you read my last post in this thread? Yeah? Then shut up. Cock. :p

Not before I posted this reply. So you shut up. Pussy.

[Shawnee123]

lol

Fine, dinglebutt.