An interesting view on the Muslims

[piercehawkeye45]

Suicide terrorism doesn't necessarily have to do with religion but other factors.

But why are they prepared to kill themselves rather than conduct "normal" military attacks? A common assumption is that these jihadists must have been "brainwashed" or seized by the fervour of religious fundamentalism and cruelly initiated into a cult of death.

But is that the correct assumption? Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago the author of Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism, who has conducted the most in-depth research into the motivations of suicide bombers certainly thinks not.

He has just outlined the findings of his revealing study of 462 suicide bombings across the globe to 50 of the FBI's top counter-terrorist chiefs.

His main conclusion is that suicide bombing is less about religious fundamentalism than secular or political grievances. Let me quote him at length from an interview he gave ABC Television in America:

There's a faulty premise in the current strategy on the war on terrorism. That faulty premise is that suicide terrorism and al- Qaida suicide terrorism in particular is mainly driven by an evil ideology Islamic fundamentalism independent of other circumstances.

However, the facts are that since 1980, suicide terrorist attacks from around the world over half have been secular. What over 95% of suicide attacks around the world [are about] is not religion, but a specific strategic purpose - to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly and this is, in fact, a centrepiece of al-Qaida's strategic logic, which is to compel the United States and western countries to abandon military commitments on the Arabian peninsula.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/arc...e_bombers.html

[TheMercenary]

Professor Pape's work is well known. But it has little bearing on the current situation in Iraq and Afganistan if you believe the people who are studying those conflicts.

[lushchocolateswirl]

this kind of sums up my perspective on all violence be it a world power or a back water of the earth.
Those who feel they are justified or never wrong will always speak the truth.


"Of course the people dont want war...that is understood. But voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." -
-- Hermann Goering

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I have no need to "subvert reality." I merely stay better connected with it than you do, tw. The quote you cite states the opposite of the conclusion you draw. Silly, aren't you? But it gets better: then you go on to contradict that conclusion and in essence if perhaps not some details, agree with me: these people were kept in an acutely disconnected condition. Which is again nothing more or else than what I already said.

UG will never accept that 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management.

Try running a search on posts by me that allude to the 85%-attributable-etc. idea for the refutation of this idea. The truth is, I accept it as at least plausible, and have made some explicit use of the concept. Tw, you're very reliable at two things: getting it wrong, and misreading others' motives and statements. Thus you disgrace yourself and undermine all your arguments. That's what you do: you are drawn into making yourself look bad like iron filings around a magnet. It is, it seems, a law of nature that the people who frenetically attack me end up with blood and egg on their faces in roughly equal parts.

The rest of your post is such scrambled ranting as to be the product not of a brain, but of a brain tumor. You are very much in a hurry to attribute fear, hate, and so forth to others, aren't you? Ever heard of projection? A man hip deep in denial would do well to worry about the crocodiles there.

. . .hate is part of his poltical mantra.

Let's see: of us two, who is the one ranting, raving, spewing, hating, and generally acting like an angry chimpanzee again? I know the face of hatred, tw, and I know where I am concerned, hatred rules and controls you. Therefore I despise you, yes. And yes, I speak against certain things because I find them unsatisfactory.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Professor Pape's work is well known. But it has little bearing on the current situation in Iraq and Afganistan if you believe the people who are studying those conflicts.

That this is more cultural than religious?

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Let's see: of us two, who is the one ranting, raving, spewing, hating, and generally acting like an angry chimpanzee again? I know the face of hatred, tw, and I know where I am concerned, hatred rules and controls you. Therefore I despise you, yes.

This is a little overboard, even for you.

[Cicero]

This isn't the only thread this is occuring. I think they need their own thread to duke it out.

Guerilla vs. t-dub

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

That this is more cultural than religious?

Well I think it is both in this conflict as well. But the motivations are much different IMHO. I consider more so the Iraq on Iraq and Afgan on Afgan than I do the attacks on any of the US or NATO forces. Much of the root cause is political as well with attempts to motivate and insite reprisal attacks by waring parties. There is much at play here.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Cicero

This isn't the only thread this is occuring.

Just priming a pump. Realize how volatile that ground water is. So easy to ignite a resultant waste that creates so much commotion and yet is not very bright.

Long before I started doing this, insults posted by UG were routine. Somehow, routine UG insults were acceptable whereas others doing less were banned.

So I prime the pump repeatedly waiting for others to note a double standard exists. Usually one post from me results in something like five posts from UG only intended to insult. It is acceptable here for UG to post insults probably for the same reason that Rush Limbaugh can insult - and therefore become popular. A double standard exists.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Become popular? UG? You've got to be kidding.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well I think it is both in this conflict as well. But the motivations are much different IMHO. I consider more so the Iraq on Iraq and Afgan on Afgan than I do the attacks on any of the US or NATO forces. Much of the root cause is political as well with attempts to motivate and insite reprisal attacks by waring parties. There is much at play here.

I agree. Forcing integration in these countries is not going to end well IMO. But unfortunately, there aren't many other choices.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Now tw's crying, "Poor me." Well, that's something new. A small thing, but a new thing. Being tw, he can't tell refutation from insult, and wouldn't want to if he could.

So we get self-pitying from him now. It's not exactly a shock. Tw's every personal trait ever displayed here seems designed to elicit contempt. I'm not, I think, alone in this perception.

Let's see, while I am on occasion abrasive while attempting to ablate somebody's layers of accreted BS, I retain my self-possession, and am not ruled by my resentments, nor am I petty, obsessive, or a leftover Communist, nor a palpable anti-patriot. I display fairness of mind regularly. I also display a clarity of vision tw lacks. Not bad for a guy who wears bifocals.

In what particulars, Glatt, am I overboard? Do you think I'm somehow unfair here?

And for those who wish to tell me be careful not to dislocate my arm patting myself on the back -- I'm double-jointed, too.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I agree. Forcing integration in these countries is not going to end well IMO. But unfortunately, there aren't many other choices.

I have said it before and will say it again. Partition is the only peaceful solution IMHO. Break it up into three parts and make Bagdad a center of the integrated parts. There is no other peaceful solution in my mind.

[piercehawkeye45]

I am for Iraqi self-determination so as long as Iraqis make the splits I am for it. I believe this may cause more problems in the short run but be much better over a longer period of time because drawing political lines based on colonialism will not allow peace except in military takeover.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I have said it before and will say it again. Partition is the only peaceful solution IMHO. Break it up into three parts and make Bagdad a center of the integrated parts. There is no other peaceful solution in my mind.

Oh, you mean like the US.