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Old 04-09-2008, 09:51 AM   #1
xoxoxoBruce
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The biggest problem with unions is the same problem with the country. 99% of the people don't want to get actively involved, let someone else do it.
Just pay your dues/taxes, maybe vote for the lesser of two evils running for office, bitch about the leadership, but don't bother doing the work to make it better.
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Old 04-18-2008, 03:32 PM   #2
TheMercenary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
The biggest problem with unions is the same problem with the country. 99% of the people don't want to get actively involved, let someone else do it.
Just pay your dues/taxes, maybe vote for the lesser of two evils running for office, bitch about the leadership, but don't bother doing the work to make it better.
Thank God I live in a right to work state. No unions.
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Old 04-18-2008, 10:53 PM   #3
xoxoxoBruce
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So the massa can continue to abuse the peons.
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:21 AM   #4
TheMercenary
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So the massa can continue to abuse the peons.
We got no massa down here. Long gone. Other RTW states, plenty from the North:

The following 22 states are right-to-work states:

Alabama
Arizona - (established by state's Constitution, not by statute)
Arkansas - (established by state's Constitution, not by statute)
Florida - (established by state's Constitution, not by statute)
Georgia
Idaho
Iowa
Kansas
Louisiana
Mississippi
Nebraska
Nevada
North Carolina
North Dakota
Oklahoma - (established by state's Constitution, not by statute)
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Wyoming
The territory of Guam also has right-to-work laws.
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Old 04-20-2008, 11:51 AM   #5
xoxoxoBruce
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Right to work states don't mean the workers can't form a union. It means if the majority of the employees choose to do so, an individual can opt out of membership and paying dues.
The people that choose to opt out, still receive the union won benefits, and in most cases the union's protection from unfair labor practices.
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:38 PM   #6
xoxoxoBruce
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My Dad was on the contractors side of the table, negotiating with the plumbers Union, although he was a dues paying, non-voting, member of that union.
He complained the contractors always gave in too easily, because they figured they were all paying the same rate, and the profits were usually figured as a percentage of the total cost of doing the job. The higher the cost, the higher the profit.

The Automobile companies, pre-foreign competition, were probably the same way. Then when they had to compete, they told the unions, we'll give you a little money now, but we'll take care of you when you retire, which the unions accepted. Remember, the highest paid autoworkers are in Europe, plus they get socialized health care.

But instead of funding the promises, and making capital improvements for better efficiency, the car makers blew their profits on bloated middle management, golden parachutes and phony spreadsheets for wall street.
Now they are telling the unions, uh, so sorry, we can't keep the promises those rich retired guys made.

Like I said before
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
The biggest problem with unions is the same problem with the country. 99% of the people don't want to get actively involved, let someone else do it.
Just pay your dues/taxes, maybe vote for the lesser of two evils running for office, bitch about the leadership, but don't bother doing the work to make it better.
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:06 PM   #7
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I'm not disagreeing with you Bruce, the companies made the promises they aren't fulfilling. My beef is that the Union leadership KNEW it then and did nothing about it. They went back to the membership and said "Look at these great new things we've gotten for you", knowing damn good and well that they'd never get it.
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:41 PM   #8
xoxoxoBruce
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I don't doubt that. That's what happens when the membership just go along and let the other guy get involved.
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:10 PM   #9
TheMercenary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookout123 View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you Bruce, the companies made the promises they aren't fulfilling. My beef is that the Union leadership KNEW it then and did nothing about it. They went back to the membership and said "Look at these great new things we've gotten for you", knowing damn good and well that they'd never get it.
How about also taking your union money and giving it to political operatives who you don't support.
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:34 PM   #10
xoxoxoBruce
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That's illegal. There are separate deductions you can make for political action, that's strictly voluntary and listed separately from dues.
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