Bush's War -Frontline

[classicman]

Good points Reg Joe - Too many assume that the only theater is the one in Iraq. That the only activity is what is happening there. Others make claims like "Deja vue this or that..." There are some similarities - they were both wars, in foreign countries ... Its a completely different world today. Things have changed so much that all these comparisons on any significant level are relatively worthless. Especially when they are proved false several posts later - with citations and facts. Then the story changes... seen it all too many times before - go find another place to grind your axe. That dog won't hunt anymore.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Others make claims like "Deja vue this or that..." There are some similarities - they were both wars, in foreign countries ... Its a completely different world today.

Which is exactly what Westmoreland said about Nam. Guess what. America was defeated in Nam for the exact same reasons that Sze Tzu defined 2500 years earlier. Amazing is how many cannot grasp a simple concept like strategic objective. How many only see victory in more deaths or less conflict. In Nam, victory was measured in body counts - again in direct contradiction to military principles understood 2500 years ago.

Do you know why Iraq broke down in civil war? Patton defined it accurately in 1945. We had six months to restore the nation, its government, water, electricity, sewers. if not, then Germany would be lost. Do you call Patton a liar or misguided? Or did you not even know or understand this concept? Germany was not lost because our leaders had basic intelligence. Why are flack jackets and helmet still required in the safest place in Iraq - the Green Zone - since we are winning? Iraq was lost into civil war because our leaders were brainwashed by their political agendas - could not grasp any reality that contradicted a political agenda. Our leader were so much fools as to get more concerned with imposing the MD driver's code into Iraqi law rather than restore electricity. At what point do old principles still not apply? Or is your real name Westmoreland?

America was defeated in Nam because a fool - Westmoreland - also used the exact same reasoning that classicman has just posted. You are supposed to have learned from history - not repeat it. Learning does not happen when one denies Deja vue.

Are you so foolish as to believe Iraq is being won? Do you remember 1969 Vietnam? Exact same reasoning proves we were winning the war; that the enemy could no longer fight. The military victory at Tet had all but ended the Vietnam war - according to 1969 Americans. In both cases - Nam and "Mission Accomplished", diminished violence is not a measure for victory. No strategic objective means no victory. That has never changed. Deja vue every war.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

Good points Reg Joe - Too many assume that the only theater is the one in Iraq. That the only activity is what is happening there. Others make claims like "Deja vue this or that..." There are some similarities - they were both wars, in foreign countries ... Its a completely different world today. Things have changed so much that all these comparisons on any significant level are relatively worthless. Especially when they are proved false several posts later - with citations and facts. Then the story changes... seen it all too many times before - go find another place to grind your axe. That dog won't hunt anymore.

People like to draw similarities between all wars to support their notions of what is happening or to explain supporting political notions. Most of it is bullocks. Similarities between Viet Nam and Iraq are actually quite poor examples, sort of like Bible code. Look long and hard enough and you will be able to twist things around to make your point. As we all know many of the conflicts in Iraq could be compared to any theater in any war.