Bush's War -Frontline

[TheMercenary]

A good show. Each segment lasts about 10 min so you can watch the whole thing at your lesiure. The show was aired over 2 days on PBS.

There are some critics who think things have been left out and I agree with some of what they say:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/bushs_war/

The best part to me is that it shows the competition within the administration and efforts by many people to do the right thing. There are heros and there are villians. If you are a conspiracy theorist it will feed your needs and fuel your fire. On the other hand, if you can look at the deeper messages you can see that very few people should get most of the blame and Bush is only one of them and in my opinion one of the weakest players. See for yourself:


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...war_2008-03-26

[lookout123]

Jr is a mental midget debil as was previously posted by those who know and aren't unamerican anti innovation MBA's. AH! 7 minutes! Smoking gun! Axis of Evil! Big Dic Extremist! AH!

[TheMercenary]

tw? is that you? What have you done with lookout123??? where is he? why have you taken his soul and moved into his body? Whhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.....

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

and Bush is only one of them and in my opinion one of the weakest players. See for yourself:

[warch]

I think its great that Frontline has collected these hours of documentation/interview and have it accessible.

Damning primarily of the Cheney and Rumsfeld machine. Of course a strong President should have the reigns...and should not be surrounded by one [wrong and strong] voice.

I was very interested in how Blair got tangled, and the French games at the UN were interesting, too, to see more about how Powell was played during the run up.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Agreed, it will be a great resource for future scholars and writers.
I feel the same way about Michael Yon's reports from Afghanistan and Iraq, being a true picture of what's actually happening, in country.

[xoxoxoBruce]

An interesting observation from Ernie at EHOWA.com.

But one can not easily compare a war that began in 1941 with one that began in 2003. Because in 2003, we watched the start of the war live on our televisions. We didn't have to wait five days to see photos of the the USS Arizona burn, like those Americans after Pearl Harbor. In 1944 we sent 1,000 B-17 bombers to do the same job a single B-2 can do today. And yet World War II saw us fight a global campaign, against two whole nations, on battlefields that crossed six continents, and still manage to have our guys back home in under four years -- all without CNN or laser guided bombs. In Iraq, we see the best trained soldiers, using the most advanced war fighting equipment known to man, completely immersed in instant global communication, and in the same amount of time it took our forefathers to march from end of the globe to another, we're stuck fighting the same battles on the same streets against the same enemies.

And this disproportionate timeline is certainly not to be attributed to any deficiency on the part of the American soldier; our guys didn't fight any harder in the Ardennes forest in 1944 than they are in Samarra now. I think the shortcoming is how the war was/is managed. I think our technological advantages have bought us casualty numbers that are so disproportionately low when compared to prior conflicts, that one can't help but ask, "What's the hold up?" when the timeline doesn't shrink as well. And it's a valid question.

[skysidhe]

You can watch that show and others online @

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

[TheMercenary]

{note link on bottom of first post}

[skysidhe]

ohh , lol * reaches for glasses * :P thanks!

[Undertoad]

The part that took from 1941-1945 (US perspective) was done at "Mission Accomplished": March 19 2008 - May 1 2008 = gov fully toppled. It's the Marshall Plan bit after which is taking too long.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The part that took from 1941-1945 (US perspective) was done at "Mission Accomplished": March 19 2008 - May 1 2008 = gov fully toppled. It's the Marshall Plan bit after which is taking too long.

Edit please, I'm sure you're not contending that this war took only forty days.

Second point. Are you contending that we're not in the "war" "bit" now? That we're in the nation building bit? If yes, then wtf is up with all the, fuck, there's no other word I know for it, maybe you know one, what's up with all the warfighting happening during the nation building part?

Come to think of it... I don't understand your point whatsoever...

[Undertoad]

Once you are ready to chat about it without all the condescension, let me know.

[BigV]

Ok. I'm ready.

We're still in a war. Two wars, actually. The hypocrisy and ineptitude of this administration is without equal. I've read about the Marshall Plan. We're not doing that now, in my non-condescending opinion. If you think we are, please elaborate.

It's a war. A *STUPID* war, but it's still happening.

As for my first point, please fix your dates or explain them.

[Undertoad]

We were at war when the objective was to remove by force the Iraqi government. During that time we were "at war" with Iraq. The war was short and went well and we removed the government. At that point we are not "at war" with anybody. We *occupy* Iraq. We are trying to help it become successful and peaceful by maintaining security while it tries to figure it out.

Here is what a real war looks like, this one undeclared:



Here is a comparison between the entire 5 years of operation in Iraq, and specific WW2 *battles* the US was involved in which constitute a few days' worth in a real, declared, total war:



We think it's warfighting now, because they say it is. But actually, we are too young and immature to comprehend war. We ain't seen nothing. When the people go off to fight expecting to die, and believing that's a good thing, then we'll know war.