A historically significant day for Australians

[Aliantha]

Don't be so quick to judge lookout. He's still young and still forming his ways of viewing the world. You could be wrong.

I'll be interested to know what PH has to say for himself before I say much more about it myself.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I'll be interested to know what PH has to say for himself before I say much more about it myself.

Reminds me of this I saw earlier today.

[Aliantha]

lol...very funny glatt.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Don't be so quick to judge lookout.

yeah, my comment does come off more harshly than i intended. It wasn't meant as a judgment of his rightness/wrongness or ability to learn. But with his starting point on social/economic topics it would be difficult for him to change his opinion regardless of the comments he reads.

[Aliantha]

Maybe, but there's hope for us all yet. Hold on to that and try not to be such a cynic.

[piercehawkeye45]

I don't see how I put off a "you either agree with it or you're a racist" ultimatium.

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Second, if blacks do become powerful and start representing a non-white agenda, there will be a power struggle and closet racists will come out of their shell because they will start to feel threatened.

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

But I find it funny that the biggest obstacle against this is what white people think when it really doesn't affect them.

I still stand by both of these statements to a point. The first statement was pointing out how I believe some liberal whites will feel threatened if blacks get power and will become open racists. The idea that some white liberals want to help out people of color as long as whites remain supreme is not an invalid observation. Many white liberals do treat people of color like children who can not be successful without white people's help. That is still racism, but that obviously does not apply to every white person or white liberal so it wasn't an absolute statement. It also just talked about a reaction to what I am proposing, it has nothing to do with disagreeing with the initial plan.

The second statement depends on how detailed you want to go. For me, how an inner city school is run does not directly affect my life or my education. If you disagree with me or if it does affect you in a direct way, then say something instead of asking me if I'm high or throwing in satire.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

No no, see, the point is not getting all black students into one school, it's getting them all black teachers. And obviously, they must only have mostly-white teaching staffs now because of racist hiring policies, since there is a huge demand among all teachers to be allowed to work in inner-city schools.

We should just force more black college graduates to be public school teachers.

I am not advocating forcing anything, separating society any more than it is, making anything absolute, or do anything radical. There are people within those communities that are more than qualified in solving those problems, I am saying we let them decide what to do with their schools. There was controversy on the afro-centric school and I agree with that type of reform, it isn't radical, it isn't forceful, it is just making the best out of the situation they have, and I do not disagree with what they are doing.

Originally Posted by lookout123

i highly doubt that aliantha. pierce's view of life would prevent any possible changing of ideas on the matter.

What is my view on life lookout123?

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

There are people within those communities that are more than qualified in solving those problems, I am saying we let them decide what to do with their schools.

But this is obviously false. Who is it that is setting up the afro-centric school in Canada? The existing, white school board. They are receiving some resistance--from people who, it should be noted, resist the idea because they truly believe it isn't going to help, not because they want to see black kids oppressed--but it's still going to happen, and they will have a chance to see if it works. You act as if there are all these individuals in the community who are being kept from implementing their ideas, yet the number one complaint from struggling schools is lack of community support, especially from parents. If, as you implied, you have "met" lots of black people who have better ideas about how to run local schools, by all means encourage them to go into public education! If they are even moderately successful they will rise to a position of power very quickly, because as it has been pointed out, most professionals in these urban areas burn out and quit after a single year. Or encourage them to go into politics and change policies from that angle. The reality is there is nothing stopping them, except perhaps their own false belief that the 'white man' will somehow keep them from doing it.

[lookout123]

What is my view on life lookout123?

Wow. Can I put my foot in my mouth, or what? Anyway, to answer your question you first I need you to understand that, to my way of thinking, your view isn't "wrong" or "inferior" in any just because it is different than mine. If we all had the same perspective on life then the world we live in would be REALLY screwed up as we all ignore the same things to focus on our own hot topics.

My observations suggest to me that you see a lot more victims in the world than I do. You see downtrodden, victimized people where I see people who are living with the consequences of their decisions. You see people with nearly insurmountable odds stacked against them, I see people with great potential and opportunity, just waiting to make a decision.

I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right. I think we're both a bit wrong and right.

[Aliantha]

OK, with regard to what PH is proposing, indigenous people in Australia had their own governing body for a while. It was set up in an anglo saxon form, but was run by indigenous people for the benefit of indigenous people. There were elections and referendums. There were news letters and all sorts of other stuff. Web pages and the like. The list goes on. The point of the body was to improve indigenous lifestyles and to give indigenous people in this country a voice.

Unfortunately, not enough indigenous people actually participated in the process. There simply wasn't any interest - or so the word is anyway - so it was closed down a few years ago.

I think this body was a fantastic idea and should have been workable. I hope that it is reinstated now that we have a new government, and I believe it will be. But like what happened here, sometimes even the people they're designed to help don't want to get involved.

anyway, I just thought I'd share that with you so you can ruminate on it.

BTW PH, have you changed your views at all?

[Flint]

Why would you want it to be reinstated if it failed the first time due to non-involvement? If it were brought back to fail a second time, wouldn't that just make them feel worse about themselves? And, if they wanted it back, wouldn't they be calling for that? I mean, you can't make them want it.

[Aliantha]

Because I think it has a better chance of success now. The atmosphere in Australia has changed towards indigenous people and the governing body is likely to have more support, not just among indigenous people, but non indigenous as well.

Many indigenous people have been protesting since it was closed in the first place citing racist attitudes by our previous government.

There's a lot more to it than what I've written here. You can find more info at this site if you're interested.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

BTW PH, have you changed your views at all?

My views are constantly changing and being redefined. The question is how much have my views changed.

Right now, I'm not exactly sure where my ideas fall under the realistic or idealistic area because of a lack of experience and knowledge of the area. I have talked to people that truly believe that they can make reforms, and people that have views more similar to Clod where the situation is so bad that one type of reform won't accomplish anything.

Until the true problems are found, if they already aren't, there isn't much that can be done and I firmly believe that what will help the most is a major change in the social forces in the area. This will not only come from parents, but from peers and other role models as well, which I am 99% sure is strongly lacking as of now. The idea of having black institutions or at least the appearance of black institutions is that it will hopefully spark something that will make the social forces in favor of education stronger in those communities. Will it work, I have no idea.

Originally Posted by Lookout123

I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right. I think we're both a bit wrong and right.

I agree. On topics such as socio-economics I firmly believe there is no wrong or right, but just personal preference and what is realistic according the situation at hand.

With reference to what you just said, I tend to see people more influenced by social forces than being a true representation of who they are as individuals.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Rap and Hip Hop don't help, either.

[piercehawkeye45]

Rap and hip hop was decent until it become commercialized. The underground stuff is much better.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Let me rephrase that.... Rap and Hip Hop artists examples of attitude don't help either. Hardly good role models.