Berkeley City Council Doing Its Anti-Democracy Bit

[Undertoad]

Can you see how something can be both unpatriotic and immoral without there being a necessary connection between the two adjectives?

No? Well can you see how a person can be both left-handed and alcoholic without there being a connection between the two adjectives?

What is patriotism?

Take the first dictionary definition you come to. Dictionary.com:

"Feeling, expressing, or inspired by love for one's country"

If one is against the troops, without which the country can't exist... I find that to be plainly and obviously unpatriotic. That's fine, their choice, and frankly they should be comfortable with their label. It is accurate and it is what they asked for.

I also find it to be immoral, as a government action, because these United States created a common government in part to provide for the common defense. Says so right up front. It's one of the top six reasons, and even Libertarians agree -- even Libertarians! -- that defense is one of the only acceptable "common goods", to be Federally managed.

If this little sector wants to hold the troops in contempt, that's one thing, but they then become "free riders", because the entire country can't be defensed minus their little sector. They benefit from that defense, whether they care to admit it or not. But they also have an impact of the defense of the entire country, so their will is infringing on you and I as well.

Some R congresspeople have floated the idea that Berkeley should face the loss of a few monetary earmarks in return. Sounds fair to me.

One earmark provides $243,000 in taxpayer dollars for the organization Chez Panisse to create gourmet organic school lunches in the Berkeley School District. Chez Panisse is dedicated to "environmental harmony" and their menu features "Comté cheese soufflé with mâche salad," "Meyer lemon éclairs with huckleberry coulis," and "Chicory salad with creamy anchovy vinaigrette and olive toast."

Ah, but we can't let these kids go hungry.

Send them MREs.

[Griff]

My question about this is whether the BCC is doing this to oppose the unpatriotic war in Iraq or the patriots who were conned into fighting it? I've done my part to try to convince kids not to serve and die during this unpatriotic regime. I believe that makes me a patriot.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I also find it to be immoral, as a government action, because these United States created a common government in part to provide for the common defense. Says so right up front. It's one of the top six reasons, and even Libertarians agree -- even Libertarians! -- that defense is one of the only acceptable "common goods", to be Federally managed.

Defense not offense; you know that whole initiation of force thing.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

If one is against the troops, without which the country can't exist... I find that to be plainly and obviously unpatriotic. That's fine, their choice, and frankly they should be comfortable with their label. It is accurate and it is what they asked for.

I don't agree with that, its simplified too much.

If the troops do the job that they are suppose to do, defend the country, yes they should be supported because there is very little doubt that they are doing what is best for the country but once, keep in mind this is opinionated, they start going past their duties and start attacking other countries on reasons that I find immoral, I find it very difficult to support them.

What the army is doing right now is not necessary for America's survival and is blatant imperialism, which I do not support so naturally I cannot support the war or the troops that are fighting this war. Do I want those troops to die, of course not, but I will not support their goal as long as they are out there. If they come back and start doing their job of defending the country, then yes, I will go back to supporting.

Showing love for one's country is very subjective and to put a single stance on what a patriotism is not only wrong, but very threatening. I show my love for for my country by speaking out against what I see are flaws in our policy. Another person may show love by supporting the troops no matter the situation. Neither of us our wrong, we are just patriotic in different ways.