There are no illegal immigrants in America

[Radar]

In another thread that was less appropriate for this discussion I said...

Originally Posted by Radar

All I'm saying is there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant in the United States of America. The Founders never granted power over immigration to the federal government. All federal immigration laws are unconstitutional. The Fed has absolutely zero Constitutional authority to create or enforce immigration laws.

By the way, this isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

So if all unconstitutional laws are automatically null and void without the requirement of judicial review (as stated by the Supreme Court in Marbury vs. Madison) it means all of the immigrants from everywhere on earth who were invited by us, are not ILLEGAL whether they are using documentation or not.

If you doubt that these immigrants weren't invited, you may want to read these words and see if they sound familiar...

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

To which I got the following response...

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The migration and importation of slaves does not apply to the immigration of free people. The clause you are mentioning refers to slaves and can only refer to slaves as it is discussing an import tax or duty on goods being imported. There is only one kind of person that is also considered a commodity or good and that is a slave.

If you don't want to take my word for it, here is a link to U.S. Government website that says it refers to the slave trade...

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pub...nstitution.htm

Specifically they state...

COMMENTARY:
This paragraph refers to the slave trade. Dealers in slaves, as well as some slaveholders, wanted to make sure that Congress could not stop anyone from bringing African slaves into the country before the year 1808. That year, Congress did ban the importation of slaves.

Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1 does not grant the federal government any authority over immigration. It prevents the federal government from ending slavery before 1808 as a compromise to get some of the southern states to join the union.

[Radar]

I want to be clear. I'm not discussing immigration laws because my contention is that they are a violation of the Constitution. I'm not discussing case law because I'm not interested in someone's opinion of what the Constitution should say or what they think was implied.

I'm talking about the black and white words in the U.S. Constitution that actually PROHIBIT the federal government from creating or enforcing immigration laws. In fact it prohibits the federal government from doing about 80% of what it currently is doing.

Where you might ask can I find this miraculous part of the Constitution that puts such strict limits on the powers of federal government?

That my friend is in the 10th amendment. It was written as a catch all by the founders to make sure the government would never step beyond the bounds of what was specifically enumerated as a power of the federal government. This amendment means the federal government can have absolutely no "implied" powers.

It RESERVES anything NOT listed in the Constitution as an enumerated power of the federal government and which has not been prohibited from being a power of the states as a right of the people and a power of the states.

Originally Posted by U.S. Constitution

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are RESERVED to the states respectively, or to the people.

I highlight the word "reserved" to focus on the fact that this means it is not within the domain of the federal government to legislate anything other than laws pertaining to the specific areas in which they are granted enumerated powers.

[busterb]

I'm not discussing case law

because I'm not interested in someone's opinion of what the Constitution should say or what they think was implied.

"Lord, Thank you for the patients I'm trying to exercise here." Unknown.
You cocksuckers from the west coast want all the votes you can get from these folks. I vote Independent. But not for folks like you! Read my lips!
"Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist." As I said before. Have you been told today? If not, FUCK YOU On second edit fuck u again. BusterB

[Aliantha]

[busterb]

Yeah Ali. Me too

[Aliantha]

it's a big box. we could share.

[busterb]

Humm. Touche?? SP

[regular.joe]

I see Radar is casting his line again. I'm just gonna stay back here and watch.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by busterb

I'm not discussing case law
"Lord, Thank you for the patients I'm trying to exercise here." Unknown.
You cocksuckers from the west coast want all the votes you can get from these folks. I vote Independent. But not for folks like you! Read my lips!
"Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist." As I said before. Have you been told today? If not, FUCK YOU On second edit fuck u again. BusterB

Apparently there are too many unpatriotic dickheads like you who haven't actually read or understood the Constitution and think the government can create any laws it chooses.

There is no such thing as an illegal alien in America so using the term "illegal alien" to describe an undocumented immigrant is like using the word "automobile" to describe a piano.

If you don't want to live in a country that was built entirely by immigrants with an open invitation for a free flow of immigrants from around the world, then GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY ASSHOLE!!!

This discussion was regarding the indisputable fact that our federal government has absolutely zero constitutional authority whatsoever to create or enforce immigration laws. Notice I used the word FACT and not OPINION? If you disagree, show me the part of the Constitution that specifically enumerates a power over immigration granted to the federal government. You can't because there is none.

[Undertoad]

Article IV, Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.

[Radar]

Invasion refers to armed forces not peaceful immigrants. Only the most insane person would confuse the two...like Lou Dobbs. The founders welcomed immigrants, but would call upon the military to defend against invading armies.

So, once again this does not grant any authority over IMMIGRATION.

Before anyone tries to misuse another part of the Constitution, I'll head you off.

The necessary & proper clause grants powers to congress only to create laws necessary and proper to carry out the specific things enumerated in the Constitution and the power to make rules regarding naturalization has nothing to do with immigration.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Radar

The Founders never granted power over immigration to the federal government.

So the states can enforce immigration laws? How would that even work?

[busterb]

You hit on Dobbs, perhaps you prefer Bill O' lielly?

then GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY ASSHOLE!!!

MY?? In the great state of fruits and nuts! No thanks.

[Undertoad]

If we disagree over what invasion means, does the Constitution say anything about who decides whose meaning is the correct one?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

So the states can enforce immigration laws? How would that even work?

It works like this. If the people of a particular state vote to allow their state the authority to limit immigration, that state can do so. However, if any of the other states in the union choose to allow immigrants to become state citizens, they would be allowed to move into any of the other states (including those who limit immigration) and be treated as equals in those states because of the 14th amendment.

To make this more clear...

If the people of Texas decided allow the state to make a law stating "No more immigrants", they'd be allowed to do so under the Constitution. If California decided to make a law that says, "All immigrants will automatically be granted California state citizen status", those immigrants would be free to move into Texas and to be treated the same way as any Texas state citizen. They would have all of the same rights and responsibilities as anyone born in Texas.

This is according to the 14th amendment's equal protection clause.