Latest Iraq thread

[regular.joe]

It is a good sign I suppose. I agree with the professor from Australia, it will take more then a generation for the kind of change to take place that we are trying to facilitate.

Same in the Balkans, same anywhere.

Look at the U.S. the civil war was in the 1860's. It is the end of 2007 and there are still people who really believe that the south will rise again.

The civil war has been boiling for years before we got there, we just took the lid off. Believe me, Iraqi's care if you are a Sunni or Shia. We really don't give a damn. Over all U.S. policy has been a bit uneducated and naive, but not malicious. I know that just our presence in Iraq has a huge impact, as well as actions on the ground..good, bad, and indifferent; a civil war in Iraq does not help us, we did not set out to facilitate one. We are certainly aware that a civil war does not help the Iraqi's.

Unfortunately there are enough Iraqi's, and to an even larger extent foreign nationals, who believe that a civil war is what they want and need.

It is certainly a big ball of wax in Iraq. I am hard pressed to put a simplistic view to the the picture. And boy that is what we Americans want... simple, easy, prepared in 10 minutes or less. Oh, and if our congress makes a set of goals, well the Iraqi's better get with it. LOL. I am amazed at our arrogance sometimes. For the past few years and continuing through today, Iraq is like the proverbial banquet table where everyone has a fork that is too long. Different families, factions, clans, alliances, religious groups, countries, and individuals are all clamoring for what they think they deserve and will not give ground. This is made more complicated for us viewing from our couches because of the Iraqi/Arab/Muslim world view that most of us do not share or understand. Cause and affect are a way different hill of beans there.

O.K. my .02 for today.

[Griff]

Well said R.j. I just wish our leaders were willing to acknowlege the complexity before sticking their noses under the tent.

[slang]

TW? Your comment on the remotely encouraging or positive reports back from Iraq?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by slang

TW? Your comment on the remotely encouraging or positive reports back from Iraq?

Who freaking cares. Another manifesto from tw is not contributing.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Griff

Well said R.j. I just wish our leaders were willing to acknowlege the complexity before sticking their noses under the tent.

Absolutely. We should have never attacked Iraq. It was a bad idea compounded by bad planning.

That said, it happened and sadly, we broke it. So rather than beating a dead horse, I'd rather look for solutions to the problem.
The few encouraging points of light, (that tw would wrongly call, feel good stories fabricated by the administration... Vietnam, deja vu), seem to be caused by some competent commanders that have their shit together.

Also, the Iraqis seem to have come to the conclusion that the US is not the only outside influence, but the lesser evil and a useful tool in eliminating the others. I think the realize the US will go home, if they can control their country.

It's a clusterfuck, I don't like it, but it is reality.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

.., seem to be caused by some competent commanders that have their shit together...

I think the key is that those individuals have proven their integrity to the folks they interact with. Pronouncements from Washington are meaningless, but a promise made in country by someone with known integrity and competence could carry the day.