Black Only Schools Proposed

[Aliantha]

I know you don't agree, but it's a fact. Ask any anthropologist.

Sure, I'll ask him/her if someone of any shade is raised in any other culture from birth, what tribe are they?
Bet I know the answer.

[Aliantha]

You should ask some Australian Aboriginals how they feel about their culture after being taken from their tribe as a child and raised in a white environment.

You might be surprised at their response.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I don't agree at all. It can be a coincidence, but nothing more.

It's considerably more than coincidence that children tend to share both culture and melanin with their parents.

How one is born is complete coincidence. You choose your morals, character, and everything else that matters in life.
Especially Canada.
Please enlighten me on the shade of Canadian culture?

Originally Posted by Aliantha

You should ask some Australian Aboriginals how they feel about their culture after being taken from their tribe as a child and raised in a white environment.

You might be surprised at their response.

I would not be surprised at all and don't agree with force, so you are not disagreeing with me at all.
That those children were kidnapped and jailed in those "schools/camps" is a tragedy worthy of FAR more world consideration.
That they are dark and have that culture has to do with their environment and how long they have been there, not how they think.
However, if an Abo child is adopted at birth by a light, American, suburban family, what is his/her culture?

[Aliantha]

Most (if not all) Aboriginal people will tell you that regardless of where they are brought up or by whom, they have a connection to this land that can't be broken. They are the land and the land is them. Similar to Indigenous American philosophy. I know people who were taken as very small children and lived in white society all their lives until such time as they could return to the land and their tribe. In many cases this is an incredible trial because there were no good records kept at the time.

To answer your question though, the child has both cultures. You can't stop someone being Aboriginal just because you put them in a white society.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by lookout123

the more ways you separate people the deeper the divides in this country will become until there comes a day when we are completely unable to relate to people that don't look and sound like "us".

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Make-up your mind, either segregation is good or it is not.

I have said this numerous times, this segregation will likely encourage integration on a larger scale. Let me say that again, it will encourage integration on a larger scale. If we segregate the kids and get them a better education, then they can get jobs they would not normally get going to the schools we have now. Then when more black kids are holding jobs that makes more money, they can move to the suburbs and further integrate society.

Originally Posted by lookout

black kids get higher scores if taught by black teachers? show me. are they the same general knowledge tests taken by every other shade of kid? were all learning conditions other than the color of the kids and teachers the same? is the teacher/student ratio the same? over what subjects? over what time period?

I showed you that article and I can tell you I have the word of more than one person who knows what they are talking about. It makes sense anyways.

Why do you think black kids do worse than white kids in integrated schools? Until you can answer that question we can get nowhere with this subject.

if the educational materials are the same and the teachers' skill and experience are the same and the students intelligence and ability to learn are the same then the results should be the same.

But the results aren't the same. That means there is some variable that you are not looking at. Social pressures play a large role in this and it has been shown that social pressures can influence academic results. Look up Jane Elliot for an example.

A black kid can't be fully educated by a white teacher because of the difference in their experiences? BS. if they are saying the education is better because they focus on "black subjects" or perspectives then they aren't receiving the same education and the scores are completely irrelevant.

No, the reason is much more psychological. It really doesn't have as much do to with the material as it does with role models and atmosphere.

what's next - specific schools for kids coming from defined income brackets? i only want my kid to learn from teachers that make XX dollars per year. they'll be able to identify more fully with that experience and obviously learn more.

Shit, I think I just broke my leg falling down that slippery slope.

this is just more PC bullshit that can be pushed out there because people are afraid that if they disagree they'll be labeled racist. Anything that divides and classifies on anything other skill and ability is wrong.

No, this is not PC bullshit. This idea goes against PC, just look at the reaction given when this idea was brought up. PC says that if we put everyone together we will all be happy. But guess what, that isn't happening so we need to fuck the current method and find something that works. This is a potential method so we might as well give it a try.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

In poor areas where people are lighter and the drop-out rates are high for lighter kids this formula will work for them as well if it is, in fact, accurate.

Actually, this formula would work for that, but it would have to add a twist to it. Do you get the point of this segregation idea rkzenrage? I mean seriously, what is the logic behind it?

As for the advantages today, I have only seen whites not getting jobs, scholarships and promotions because of their color these days... not enough room because others must be given the position to fill quotas. Advantage is urban myth now.

Really? Do I really need to pull out the stats? I mean, just for one, there is a study that says that a white guy with a criminal record has the same chance of getting a job as a black guy without a criminal record when they both have the same credentials. Most of the advantages you don't see and you can't even takes statistics of anyways. What do you think institutionalized means?

BINGO... we have a winner.

So you think that family is the sole influence on education? So that means my brother and I should have gotten the same scores throughout high school because our parents pushed us and emphasized education the same for both of us? But guess what, we didn't.

So you don't think teachers, environment, administration, friends, expectations from society, role models, and overall determination have no effect on how well a child does in school? Parents obviously have a large effect but it is definitely not the sole influence.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

To answer your question though, the child has both cultures. You can't stop someone being Aboriginal just because you put them in a white society.

The Rabbit Fence. Great flick; I have a copy.

[Aliantha]

rabbit proof fence, and yes, it's a good movie. a classic in fact.

[monster]

I hear the call of an open mind
leaving all that PC crap behind
Black-focused schools may not be the way
but blacks aren't served by the schools today

Don't be a fool or a PC jerk
If what we have just doesn't work
We need to try a set-up that's new
Why don't we see what these schools can do?

[ZenGum]

WRT RK's post #66, "Abo" is considered derogatory and offensive. Please use "Aboriginal" or "Indigenous".

And as a white college-educated 35-year-old male, I believe their IS racial advantage and disadvantage and since I care about social justice I want to see that addressed.
The best way to address it is at the education level, not at the job selection level. If that means tailoring education systems to the needs of disadvantaged minorities, then we should do this. I'd certainly like to see more black teachers, and I wouldn't mind trying black-only schools, but I'd like to see these schools have regular "mixer" events where students from different backgrounds do things together.

[lookout123]

you aren't going to fix test results unless you can change the family. end of story. the color of skin doesn't matter. the emphasis placed on education and the living environment matter.

[ZenGum]

The family environment is of course enormously important - probably more important that the school. But that doesn't justify calling "end of story". School is still part of the story.
It's very hard to see how we can "change the family" without getting outrageously invasive. Short of forced fostering or institutionalization, there is only so much we can do. These extreme options were tried in Australia and are now regretted.
But we can work on school systems relatively easily. Getting the parents more involved in their kids' learning might help, but won't address the worst cases. We should do what we can, but not expect huge rapid progress.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by lookout123

you aren't going to fix test results unless you can change the family. end of story. the color of skin doesn't matter. the emphasis placed on education and the living environment matter.

But if the family cares deeply about the color of their skin, rightly or wrongly, it can be a reasonable way to meet them halfway. This project in theory already represents families who care, at least enough to actively send their kid to a different school that they believe will be better for them. The real improvements to the community would only possibly come after a few years of the school being in operation, when borderline parents, who maybe care but just don't have a clue what they're doing, have a chance to see the success of the students in the all-black school, and talk to the other parents in the community who already sent their kids there.

Tell the working mom in the ghetto that she has to read to her kids every night after her second shift, and she may just give up right there. But tell her (or rather, have her neighbors and friends show her) a way that she can get her children into a better environment just by applying for this free school, and maybe she'll do it. Is it really better because the teachers are all black, or because the kids are from families who care more and are able to build a better environment for themselves? Why does it matter? To care means to have at least some hope for success, and sometimes it helps to demonstrate the possibility of success to people in a more approachable manner.