Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week

TheMercenary · 10-30-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Goodwin's law originally stated that as a thread grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning Hitler or Nazis approaches one.
This has drifted to be that in any thread, as soon as someone says "that's what the Nazis/Hitler would do/say" that person automatically loses the argument and the thread ends.
HOWEVER! There is also Quirk's exception, which states that Hitler and Nazism may be mentioned without activating Goodwin's law, if it is actually relevant to the topic.

I think in this thread, it was relevant. Bandito was talking about the desire for an external enemy. Consider the following quote:

Islam is the new communism.

I don't buy it man. After our, and many other countries, sacrifices during WW2, to compare our current government with that of the Nazi's because you hate Bush or whatever the fuck is pissing you off is fucking stupid and you ought to be stoned to death.

ZenGum · 10-30-2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I don't buy it man. After our, and many other countries, sacrifices during WW2, to compare our current government with that of the Nazi's because you hate Bush or whatever the fuck is pissing you off is fucking stupid and you ought to be stoned to death.

that last

comment is something

a nazi would say

That was a joke.

Serious reply:
True, there are vast differences between Hitler and Bush, between the Nazis and the Republicans.
But I also think it is true that lots of governments (Australia's current PM Howard as well as Bush, for example) like to play on fear of an external threat to boost their popularity, and aren't above twisting the facts to suit their purposes.
Since this is widespread, we might argue that Quirk's exception doesn't apply here and we should invoke Goodwin's law. But the Nazis were particularly explicit in this strategy, and so I still think this is a legitimate mention.
This is not to say that the Bush administration is in every respect like the Nazis.

Stoned to death? I've tried, but I kept running out.

ElBandito · 10-30-2007, 12:30 PM

It wasn't a comparison of Hitler-Bush. Who wants to do that again? Go through all that guff.

It was that external, ultra-demonic enemy, used against a populace to inspire nationalism and fervour, allowing the governing body to do what they want.

Islam is the new Communism - damn right. Hell, I'd go so far as to say Islam is the new war on drugs.

Does Islam deserve it? I don't think so. No more than the Jews during WWII. Does any People deserve it?

TheMercenary · 10-30-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElBandito

It wasn't a comparison of Hitler-Bush. Who wants to do that again? Go through all that guff.

It was that external, ultra-demonic enemy, used against a populace to inspire nationalism and fervour, allowing the governing body to do what they want.

Islam is the new Communism - damn right. Hell, I'd go so far as to say Islam is the new war on drugs.

Does Islam deserve it? I don't think so. No more than the Jews during WWII. Does any People deserve it?

It has very little to do with Islam. It has to do with a minority of radical elements who have co-opted the cause and a majority who are afraid to speak up. There is no way you can compare the democracy of today to the Nazi's and Facists of yesteryear. It is like people who believe in Bible code. Parallels can be drawn from many situations.

Happy Monkey · 10-30-2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

There is no way you can compare the democracy of today to the Nazi's and Facists of yesteryear.

I think the comparison was between the democracy of today, and the democracy of Pre-WWII Germany.

TheMercenary · 10-30-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I think the comparison was between the democracy of today, and the democracy of Pre-WWII Germany.

Which lead to the rise of Facism and Nazism? No deal. I don't buy the comparison that our current democracy is in someway akin to what lead to the events in Germany and the rise of such evil.

Happy Monkey · 10-30-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Which lead to the rise of Facism and Nazism? No deal. I don't buy the comparison that our current democracy is in someway akin to what lead to the events in Germany and the rise of such evil.

Neither would have the pre-war Germans.

Americans aren't some sort of super-race that can feel free to use the tactics of fear and nationalism and expect the fundamental goodness of our country to protect us from their ill effects.

ElBandito · 10-30-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

It has very little to do with Islam. It has to do with a minority of radical elements who have co-opted the cause and a majority who are afraid to speak up. There is no way you can compare the democracy of today to the Nazi's and Facists of yesteryear. It is like people who believe in Bible code. Parallels can be drawn from many situations.

I think what we tend to lose sight of is that initially the Nazi party was a minority of radical elements who co-opted a cause and led a majority who were afraid to speak up...

There's nothing that's simultaneously more chilling and entertaining than watching 'Triumph of the Will', most expressly the scene with over 100,000 'Road-workers' standing in formation with their shovels on their shoulders. These guys weren't the military, they were roadworkers. And in the film they espoused a certain nationalistic fervour that's (in retrospect quite camp) rather scary.

piercehawkeye45 · 10-30-2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElBandito

I think what we tend to lose sight of is that initially the Nazi party was a minority of radical elements who co-opted a cause and led a majority who were afraid to speak up...

I thought the Hitler was tremendously popular right before and during the the beginning of the war?

Hitler brought the whole country out of one of the biggest depressions in history, and raised the standard of living of everyone that was "pure". Hitler was probably just as popular as FDR if not even more.

For the whole Jews part. From a civilian standpoint, they didn't know about the holocaust at the time or just chose to be ignorant, the Jews were probably treated in the same way as blacks were treated in the United States. The US was pretty anti-semitic at the time as well. I think it had to do more with the Nazi party hiding facts and the people too concerned about other interests to care about what was happening to them. That is the scariest part about any country, the people not even caring that they are being taken over from the inside.

Here is an article about why Hitler was so popular:
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0703a.asp

Here is the discussion on the cellar:
http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=15017

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-30-2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

. . . and you ought to be stoned to death.

By means of a remarkably big spliff.

10-30-2007, 12:30 PM	#3
ElBandito Captain of Jelly Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Wgtn, NZ Posts: 62	It wasn't a comparison of Hitler-Bush. Who wants to do that again? Go through all that guff. It was that external, ultra-demonic enemy, used against a populace to inspire nationalism and fervour, allowing the governing body to do what they want. Islam is the new Communism - damn right. Hell, I'd go so far as to say Islam is the new war on drugs. Does Islam deserve it? I don't think so. No more than the Jews during WWII. Does any People deserve it?

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